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[Music]

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the smoke radio for the masses of July 8

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1947 the Army Air Forces has announced

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that a flying disc has been found and is

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now in the possession of the army

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game is rigged change the game game

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changer I occasionally think how quickly

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our differences worldwide would vanish

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if we were facing an alien threat from

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outside this work

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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this is Fade to Black with your host

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Jimmy Church on the game changer Radio

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Network

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[Music]

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all right good evening I mean assuming

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church this is Fade to Black it is

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Monday January 23rd 2023 and our guest

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tonight is Leslie Kane and we're going

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to jump straight into it uh tonight and

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of course uh Leslie's a writer a

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journalist uh an author a researcher

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with a focus over the last few decades

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on UFOs but lately some life after death

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has entered the picture too as well

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extremely compelling and interesting and

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with all of that

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let's just get straight to it and say

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Leslie good evening good evening how you

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doing Jimmy I am fantastic young lady

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and listen it's been a while since

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you've been on the show so before I say

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what have you been up to uh welcome back

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it's uh really great to see you and and

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hear from you great to be on with you

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it's been a little it has been a while

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I'm glad to be here yeah and so much is

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oh my God yeah right so much has gone

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down and uh and and we'll do all of that

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and I promise everybody that uh is is

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listening right now we'll we'll get to

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um some new stuff and and what is going

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on today but

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um I got a hold of Leslie I'm just gonna

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throw you under the bus just a little

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bit oh I was um I was reading uh for I

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don't know uh how many times now I went

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back and cracked open on the record and

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and I did it for my own reasons there's

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so much going on you know politics in

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the Department of Defense and and

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everything in the media and and I went

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in and knocked the dust off of that 2010

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right we're in 2023

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and uh started reading it and I put the

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book down uh after the second night

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and I said to myself I gotta I gotta

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call Leslie tomorrow and and I've I've

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I've got to do a show and the reason for

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me reaching out which I said to you was

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that I want to talk about you

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and and I don't know the last time

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somebody has said that to you because it

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you know it's all UFOs and uavs you know

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all the time now but uh that's what I

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did and you you said let's do this I I

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think that's a great idea and that's

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that was my vision for tonight so are

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you down sure yeah you said you want to

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talk about the book and just to say the

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full title it's UFOs generals pilots and

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government officials go on the record so

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yeah I think on the record's a great

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abbreviation for that long title

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I've never heard it I've never heard it

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called that before so that's good yeah

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and uh here's here's the thing with that

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um that book when it came out was right

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when you were just sort of wrapping up

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things in South and Central America and

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certainly

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um in Washington DC with with things

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that you were working on at that time

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but it does it never starts there if I I

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want to go back let's go let's go back

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back

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um the interest in the subject of UFOs

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uh today uaps let's stay with UFOs

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tonight

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um uh had to start somewhere did you

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have a sighting as a child or a crazy

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aunt or uncle that had been abducted

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what what

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well the way it got started for me was

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it was in 1999 I received a copy of the

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cometa report a translation of it and I

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I your list your listeners probably know

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what that report is that French study so

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I'm not going to go into a lot of detail

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about it but it was you know I was a

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journalist I was at a public radio

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station at the time covering all kinds

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of topics on a Daily Show and then this

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colleague sent me this report this 90

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page study and it just blew my mind

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um so it wasn't because I'd had any

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sightings or anything I it was the the

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quality of that report and the fact that

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it was written by generals and Admirals

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and really really high level French

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officials and then they drew the

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conclusion that the best explanation

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that they could provide for the

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phenomena they studied was the

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Extraterrestrial hypothesis I mean they

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said that in black and white and that

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was Radical in those days nobody was you

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know nobody at generals and Admirals

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were generally not saying that publicly

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um you know it was such a different time

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that then than it is now so and I just

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thought you know they said it was the

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most valid rational and logical

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hypothesis to explain the cases they

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studied and these are all official cases

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with really good data

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so I just jumped on that as a journalist

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it was really my journalistic and you

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know interest that got me going on it

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and then I published a story in May of

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2000 in the Boston Globe based on this

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report

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and that was really a challenge to even

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get something published on this in those

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days and then from that moment on I was

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completely captivated by this and I just

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never never stopped now we were you ever

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concerned with the stigma you know the

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UFO stigma in in media and journalism

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because pretty much it's the kiss of

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death or at least that's what they'll

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tell you you know let's do something

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about this over here it's a little safer

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were you concerned about that oh yeah I

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mean it was a big deal then and when I

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was working on that first story I

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remember I was working at this public

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radio station in Berkeley California

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which considered itself to be very

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Progressive but nonetheless I was afraid

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to even let anybody there know that I

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was working on this topic it was so and

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and they that what little if I showed it

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you know if I mentioned it a little bit

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there were Snickers and laughter and

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um and then yeah so I mean I was I was

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concerned about it and I but I felt like

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once that Boston Globe story came out I

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had some legs to stand on because that

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was a really reputable publication it

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was a serious story with no

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sensationalism or exaggeration or claims

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or anything else and so I felt like I

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had that to stand on after that and at

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that point I just felt that the the

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taboo was so so irrational and crazy to

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me I just it took me a while to even

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understand that it existed and what it

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was like and then I was like what the

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hell is this why does nobody care about

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this and it sort of became part of my my

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journey was to figure all of that out

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and then over the years I got to watch

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it gradually decrease but it was a

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really a big deal in the beginning what

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what did you versus where you were

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before you read the uh uh commutative

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report

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um what was your foundation with UFOs

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was it just Hollywood you know and and

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that side of things or did you learn

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something significant and get a take

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away from the commuter report important

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well I had read I remember reading

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communion so I had read and I might have

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even read Bud hopkins's

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um

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yeah or missing time but I do remember

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um staying up most of the night reading

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uh communion and being terrified

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um so you know and I had some friends

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that lived in the Hudson Valley during

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the Hudson Valley way they were tally so

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I I had this definite curiosity about

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UFOs but it wasn't any more than I think

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any average person would have who read

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that book you know and yeah so what I

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learned from that committed report I

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definitely learned something new which

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was that officials at this high level

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were taking it seriously we're studying

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it and that was something I hadn't seen

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before at least here in the United

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States right well I mean and I'm sure

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you know if I had been researching this

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there were all these foia documents that

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had been released in the 70s and there

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was lots of evidence that our government

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you know there was Project Blue Book I

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mean all of that I hadn't looked into

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that yet it was all new to me at that

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time so so it was it took me years to

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really get a handle on you know to do

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all the research and get and learn who

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were the people that I could trust and

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who were the serious people and who

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weren't it was it was a mess you know

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things haven't changed have they no I

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think it's better now but um it's better

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but what I mean by that is the uh the

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whole aspect of UFO 101 and

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um you know when we look at today

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because so much has been brought into

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this so many new faces and people and a

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general interest in this but they don't

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have that Foundation right that UFO 101

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it's kind of like the Nimitz and forward

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right or 2017 in the New York Times and

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forward where they don't have that

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Foundation

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well who doesn't who doesn't have the

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foundation who do you mean those that

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are suddenly hearing about UFOs for the

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first time they don't know about the

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industry that's right I think it's

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important to contextualize it you know

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for people and I like to do that as much

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as I can when I get the rare opportunity

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to write an article at the Times Ralph

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blumenth and I always try to provide as

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much context as we can but we have

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limited space so yeah it takes a long

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time to get a handle on it and to see it

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in the in the context that everyone

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needs to understand it and it's really

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true it's one of the funnest rabbit

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holes oh yeah you just you open up

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something and there's that you could

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spend months you know J in this

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direction or go into this direction and

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it's like the gift it keeps on giving it

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it's not just one singular event is it

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no it's true you can and you can follow

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a lot of paths you know as you go along

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your road you take a lot of side routes

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and some of them pan out and some of

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them don't

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so you can spend months looking into

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something that you kind of have to say

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Okay well I'm not going to be able to

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work with this I did that a lot in the

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beginning because I was looking into

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things like you know the MJ 12 documents

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and the Bob Lazar story and all these

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things that were intriguing to me but to

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do the kind of reporting that I wanted

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to do these were not the kinds of things

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that I could work with because they they

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did they weren't corroborated so you

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know I I just had to kind of go through

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a process of elimination like that

273
00:11:41,569 --> 00:11:40,079
um and really figure out what could I

274
00:11:43,790 --> 00:11:41,579
really report on because I was trying to

275
00:11:46,009 --> 00:11:43,800
reach the mainstream audience you know

276
00:11:48,110 --> 00:11:46,019
that doesn't know anything about this

277
00:11:51,170 --> 00:11:48,120
and trying to really break through this

278
00:11:53,150 --> 00:11:51,180
ridicule Factor so I had to be get

279
00:11:55,970 --> 00:11:53,160
really really good material and like the

280
00:11:58,190 --> 00:11:55,980
second story I did was was um based on a

281
00:12:01,190 --> 00:11:58,200
report by Richard Haynes from narcap who

282
00:12:03,170 --> 00:12:01,200
maybe some listeners will remember and

283
00:12:05,389 --> 00:12:03,180
it was all about Aviation safety cases

284
00:12:07,130 --> 00:12:05,399
and you know that was something I mean

285
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:07,140
it was really powerful because it was

286
00:12:10,610 --> 00:12:08,880
all these cases of Pilots interacting

287
00:12:12,110 --> 00:12:10,620
with these objects and they were all on

288
00:12:14,090 --> 00:12:12,120
the record and nobody could argue with

289
00:12:17,210 --> 00:12:14,100
it and how can you say well this doesn't

290
00:12:19,250 --> 00:12:17,220
matter when these these events are

291
00:12:20,810 --> 00:12:19,260
occurring you know with and this is

292
00:12:22,310 --> 00:12:20,820
mainly commercial aircraft you know

293
00:12:24,110 --> 00:12:22,320
passenger planes

294
00:12:25,730 --> 00:12:24,120
so those are the kinds of things that I

295
00:12:27,710 --> 00:12:25,740
had to focus on I couldn't go off into

296
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:27,720
sort of this really strange stuff too

297
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:28,800
much

298
00:12:34,610 --> 00:12:31,200
how do you what what's on your business

299
00:12:37,850 --> 00:12:34,620
card how do you define yourself a a

300
00:12:39,590 --> 00:12:37,860
journalist an author a researcher how do

301
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:39,600
you look at yourself

302
00:12:44,329 --> 00:12:42,480
I had to pick one word sorry I would be

303
00:12:45,290 --> 00:12:44,339
it would be investigative journalists I

304
00:12:49,009 --> 00:12:45,300
think

305
00:12:52,490 --> 00:12:49,019
and is there a difference in the

306
00:12:56,210 --> 00:12:52,500
research for an article as opposed to

307
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:56,220
writing a book and of course there must

308
00:12:59,509 --> 00:12:58,320
be a difference in the writing style but

309
00:13:01,490 --> 00:12:59,519
is there a difference in the research

310
00:13:03,230 --> 00:13:01,500
and how you approach it

311
00:13:05,090 --> 00:13:03,240
I mean it depends on of course what the

312
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:05,100
book is and what it's about I mean when

313
00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:08,160
I did the UFO book in 22

314
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:09,600
really it was

315
00:13:13,069 --> 00:13:11,279
it was it wasn't that different it was

316
00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:13,079
like an expanded article although I

317
00:13:17,629 --> 00:13:15,120
could bring more of myself into it in a

318
00:13:19,370 --> 00:13:17,639
book right because you know I I wrote

319
00:13:21,290 --> 00:13:19,380
the introduction all about how I got

320
00:13:23,329 --> 00:13:21,300
started and then at the end I sort of

321
00:13:25,550 --> 00:13:23,339
wrote my a kind of a broader

322
00:13:27,050 --> 00:13:25,560
philosophical commentary on you know

323
00:13:29,210 --> 00:13:27,060
what I think it might mean and what you

324
00:13:30,889 --> 00:13:29,220
know so it becomes more personal in a

325
00:13:33,470 --> 00:13:30,899
book

326
00:13:35,569 --> 00:13:33,480
um and more detail a lot more detail I

327
00:13:38,629 --> 00:13:35,579
mean you can do so much more in a book

328
00:13:40,910 --> 00:13:38,639
than in a short article and then my book

329
00:13:42,590 --> 00:13:40,920
surviving death was really personal and

330
00:13:43,850 --> 00:13:42,600
it was much more of a risk for me to

331
00:13:45,410 --> 00:13:43,860
write that book than it was to write

332
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:45,420
UFOs so

333
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:47,279
I that's what I like about writing a

334
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:48,720
book you know

335
00:13:53,449 --> 00:13:51,120
um yeah yeah let me let me ask you about

336
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:53,459
that because

337
00:13:59,210 --> 00:13:56,639
so much is out there it's like there's

338
00:14:01,730 --> 00:13:59,220
two different certainly today too let me

339
00:14:04,970 --> 00:14:01,740
get this thought out uh we have like two

340
00:14:09,170 --> 00:14:04,980
different sides to the question we have

341
00:14:11,210 --> 00:14:09,180
the civilian side and and the testimony

342
00:14:13,850 --> 00:14:11,220
um Bud Hopkins is a great example of

343
00:14:17,230 --> 00:14:13,860
that right of course and and John Mack

344
00:14:21,290 --> 00:14:17,240
and then you have the uh the military

345
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:21,300
and and the governmental side of it

346
00:14:30,530 --> 00:14:26,160
um your focus uh uh for everybody has

347
00:14:34,190 --> 00:14:30,540
been on the other side right uh uh the

348
00:14:37,250 --> 00:14:34,200
geopolitical side the defensive side and

349
00:14:39,949 --> 00:14:37,260
and the military side is that because of

350
00:14:42,889 --> 00:14:39,959
your pragmatic mind where you you you

351
00:14:45,710 --> 00:14:42,899
want to just deal with those types of

352
00:14:46,750 --> 00:14:45,720
facts yeah I mean it was really if we

353
00:14:49,009 --> 00:14:46,760
look

354
00:14:51,710 --> 00:14:49,019
pre-2017 Jimmy

355
00:14:53,870 --> 00:14:51,720
my goal was to try to get the US

356
00:14:56,350 --> 00:14:53,880
government to pay attention to this and

357
00:14:58,970 --> 00:14:56,360
to get the you know the establishment

358
00:15:01,370 --> 00:14:58,980
the status quo to pay attention to this

359
00:15:03,170 --> 00:15:01,380
the members of Congress the media and

360
00:15:05,930 --> 00:15:03,180
the the only way I could do that was to

361
00:15:08,210 --> 00:15:05,940
bring super credible information to the

362
00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:08,220
table because at that point this thing

363
00:15:13,610 --> 00:15:10,260
was totally ridiculed this subject

364
00:15:17,329 --> 00:15:13,620
matter so I had to write about you know

365
00:15:19,490 --> 00:15:17,339
military people Airline air Pilots

366
00:15:21,650 --> 00:15:19,500
um you know things like that if I

367
00:15:23,329 --> 00:15:21,660
started writing about average people who

368
00:15:26,329 --> 00:15:23,339
were reporting these really bizarre

369
00:15:27,650 --> 00:15:26,339
encounters with aliens forget it that

370
00:15:28,910 --> 00:15:27,660
would there the members of Congress

371
00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:28,920
aren't going to pay attention to that it

372
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:30,480
was all about it was all kind of a

373
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:33,120
strategic effort to get the kinds of

374
00:15:37,129 --> 00:15:34,800
attention to this that I felt it

375
00:15:38,810 --> 00:15:37,139
deserved you know every time I wrote an

376
00:15:40,910 --> 00:15:38,820
article I thought write something that

377
00:15:42,590 --> 00:15:40,920
you could you felt you could put on the

378
00:15:43,790 --> 00:15:42,600
desk of a member of Congress and they

379
00:15:45,769 --> 00:15:43,800
would read it

380
00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:45,779
so you know if you're putting out

381
00:15:49,009 --> 00:15:47,279
pressure I remember you know there were

382
00:15:51,290 --> 00:15:49,019
activists putting out press releases at

383
00:15:53,810 --> 00:15:51,300
the time all about extraterrestrials and

384
00:15:55,790 --> 00:15:53,820
that that that just had the opposite

385
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:55,800
effect it made them actually turn away

386
00:16:00,829 --> 00:15:58,560
from this so I actually worked with a

387
00:16:02,389 --> 00:16:00,839
public relations firm in my early years

388
00:16:04,189 --> 00:16:02,399
in in

389
00:16:06,829 --> 00:16:04,199
um Washington that's how I met John

390
00:16:08,629 --> 00:16:06,839
podesta and I I was you know I learned

391
00:16:10,009 --> 00:16:08,639
from those people how you can approach

392
00:16:12,050 --> 00:16:10,019
members of Congress what kind of

393
00:16:13,970 --> 00:16:12,060
information will they pay attention to

394
00:16:16,670 --> 00:16:13,980
what kind of information is going to

395
00:16:18,590 --> 00:16:16,680
turn them off and so I I was really

396
00:16:20,750 --> 00:16:18,600
trying to focus on you know what was

397
00:16:22,850 --> 00:16:20,760
going to create change in that or in

398
00:16:25,129 --> 00:16:22,860
that world and that's why I stuck with

399
00:16:27,230 --> 00:16:25,139
that kind of information and then in

400
00:16:29,269 --> 00:16:27,240
2017 it was that kind of information

401
00:16:30,829 --> 00:16:29,279
that broke everything open when we went

402
00:16:36,050 --> 00:16:30,839
to the New York Times

403
00:16:38,509 --> 00:16:36,060
so the um the approach when you go and

404
00:16:41,810 --> 00:16:38,519
have conversations uh South of the

405
00:16:45,050 --> 00:16:41,820
Border right uh whether it's it's Mexico

406
00:16:48,590 --> 00:16:45,060
or Central America on into you know uh

407
00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:48,600
Chile Argentina Brazil what have you

408
00:16:53,629 --> 00:16:51,540
um is it easy to start that conversation

409
00:16:55,249 --> 00:16:53,639
and open those doors as opposed to

410
00:16:57,410 --> 00:16:55,259
Washington

411
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:57,420
it's really different I mean the main

412
00:17:03,170 --> 00:17:00,240
place that I spent time was Chile

413
00:17:04,730 --> 00:17:03,180
and and I got to be very kind of I mean

414
00:17:07,730 --> 00:17:04,740
they invited me into their government

415
00:17:09,530 --> 00:17:07,740
agency and I sat in on meetings and I

416
00:17:12,289 --> 00:17:09,540
got to spend time there and they showed

417
00:17:15,409 --> 00:17:12,299
me their files and and they just didn't

418
00:17:17,870 --> 00:17:15,419
have the kind of a paranoid you know

419
00:17:19,669 --> 00:17:17,880
secrecy going on like they do here I

420
00:17:20,750 --> 00:17:19,679
mean they were open about pretty much

421
00:17:23,569 --> 00:17:20,760
everything

422
00:17:25,669 --> 00:17:23,579
uh it was part of the Mandate of that

423
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:25,679
government agency was to be transparent

424
00:17:30,110 --> 00:17:28,079
and it's a smaller country you know it's

425
00:17:32,590 --> 00:17:30,120
not you're not dealing with the United

426
00:17:35,390 --> 00:17:32,600
States of America which is so different

427
00:17:37,370 --> 00:17:35,400
but that I you know I was very friendly

428
00:17:39,230 --> 00:17:37,380
with the people at that agency so that

429
00:17:41,690 --> 00:17:39,240
was not difficult for me I haven't spent

430
00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:41,700
a lot of time in any other countries I

431
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:43,080
think it was through the Chilean

432
00:17:45,950 --> 00:17:44,640
authorities that I was introduced to

433
00:17:47,150 --> 00:17:45,960
some of the officials from some of the

434
00:17:49,730 --> 00:17:47,160
other countries

435
00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:49,740
um and there was a general from Brazil

436
00:17:53,390 --> 00:17:51,600
who wrote a chapter in my book and some

437
00:17:56,029 --> 00:17:53,400
others from Chile so

438
00:17:58,010 --> 00:17:56,039
but it was really fascinating for me to

439
00:18:00,289 --> 00:17:58,020
spend time with that that agency and see

440
00:18:03,710 --> 00:18:00,299
how they operated and I kind of

441
00:18:05,990 --> 00:18:03,720
saw that as a model a smaller version of

442
00:18:08,710 --> 00:18:06,000
a model for how an agency could function

443
00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:08,720
at a very low budget and I remember

444
00:18:13,070 --> 00:18:11,520
bringing that knowledge back with me and

445
00:18:15,710 --> 00:18:13,080
I also spent time with Jay Paul in

446
00:18:17,810 --> 00:18:15,720
France the French agency and those two

447
00:18:20,029 --> 00:18:17,820
agencies sort of I felt were models for

448
00:18:22,730 --> 00:18:20,039
what could potentially happen in the

449
00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:22,740
United States and I was I you know I did

450
00:18:25,370 --> 00:18:24,480
a lot of investigation and I spent time

451
00:18:26,810 --> 00:18:25,380
with them then I brought this

452
00:18:28,909 --> 00:18:26,820
information back and I had meetings with

453
00:18:31,070 --> 00:18:28,919
John podesta about it you know we need

454
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:31,080
to get something going here

455
00:18:34,430 --> 00:18:32,640
um and of course it turned out there

456
00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:34,440
already was an agency here but it was

457
00:18:38,330 --> 00:18:36,480
top secret and it was only dealing with

458
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:38,340
a limited type of case only with

459
00:18:41,810 --> 00:18:40,799
military cases so yeah so it was very

460
00:18:44,690 --> 00:18:41,820
useful

461
00:18:46,730 --> 00:18:44,700
to see that the Chilean agency could do

462
00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:46,740
what it was doing without a big budget

463
00:18:51,909 --> 00:18:49,919
because it relied on advisors and and

464
00:18:53,870 --> 00:18:51,919
you know scientists and all these people

465
00:18:56,870 --> 00:18:53,880
meteorologists that would can come and

466
00:18:58,549 --> 00:18:56,880
contribute to case investigations and

467
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:58,559
they it wouldn't cost them anything they

468
00:19:02,390 --> 00:19:00,240
just relied on all these officials from

469
00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:02,400
from outside of the agency to contribute

470
00:19:07,789 --> 00:19:04,559
and they would everybody cared everybody

471
00:19:09,049 --> 00:19:07,799
was interested in it was there ever a

472
00:19:11,570 --> 00:19:09,059
chatter

473
00:19:13,730 --> 00:19:11,580
um uh I'm just reminded of James Fox in

474
00:19:17,150 --> 00:19:13,740
his new movie right uh moment of contact

475
00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:17,160
and you've known James forever

476
00:19:23,450 --> 00:19:20,480
um in in that in in your Communications

477
00:19:25,490 --> 00:19:23,460
with with Chile

478
00:19:29,810 --> 00:19:25,500
um and and and the general from Brazil

479
00:19:32,210 --> 00:19:29,820
too as well that the road always ends

480
00:19:34,970 --> 00:19:32,220
with it's the rumor in the UFO Community

481
00:19:37,610 --> 00:19:34,980
right that the United States steps in

482
00:19:40,190 --> 00:19:37,620
there's there's a crash or there's

483
00:19:44,510 --> 00:19:40,200
contact or there's evidence or there's a

484
00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:44,520
thing and those governments and and

485
00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:46,320
militaries take things as far as they

486
00:19:51,289 --> 00:19:49,200
can until that moment of contact with

487
00:19:55,130 --> 00:19:51,299
the United States government

488
00:19:57,289 --> 00:19:55,140
um did does this stuff actually occur or

489
00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:57,299
is there an independence there the

490
00:20:02,810 --> 00:19:58,799
reason why I'm asking such a direct

491
00:20:04,610 --> 00:20:02,820
question is because of uh uh atip or

492
00:20:08,330 --> 00:20:04,620
other things that may have been going on

493
00:20:10,850 --> 00:20:08,340
at the Pentagon prior and were they

494
00:20:17,810 --> 00:20:10,860
sharing this information back and forth

495
00:20:21,289 --> 00:20:19,130
but I don't know what I don't know I

496
00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:21,299
certainly didn't get the impression that

497
00:20:26,570 --> 00:20:23,940
the U.S played a big role in the work

498
00:20:28,430 --> 00:20:26,580
that they were doing on this issue they

499
00:20:29,810 --> 00:20:28,440
certainly you know I mean I was the only

500
00:20:32,029 --> 00:20:29,820
person they really talked to and then

501
00:20:33,470 --> 00:20:32,039
they were dealing with narcap also they

502
00:20:36,169 --> 00:20:33,480
had a relationship with Richard Haynes

503
00:20:37,789 --> 00:20:36,179
and Ted Rowe from narcap but we were

504
00:20:39,529 --> 00:20:37,799
they weren't give dealing but those were

505
00:20:40,730 --> 00:20:39,539
not government officials and I wasn't a

506
00:20:43,130 --> 00:20:40,740
go they weren't dealing with anybody

507
00:20:45,650 --> 00:20:43,140
really from the United States government

508
00:20:47,630 --> 00:20:45,660
out of this agency in Chile now it may

509
00:20:49,850 --> 00:20:47,640
be that at very very high levels of the

510
00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:49,860
Chilean Air Force something else was

511
00:20:54,289 --> 00:20:52,320
going on you know sure and if there had

512
00:20:55,490 --> 00:20:54,299
been a crash there or something it might

513
00:20:57,230 --> 00:20:55,500
have been handled in the way you're

514
00:20:58,490 --> 00:20:57,240
describing I wouldn't I wouldn't be

515
00:21:01,010 --> 00:20:58,500
surprised at all

516
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:01,020
but as far as the agency itself knew and

517
00:21:05,029 --> 00:21:02,640
it was run by a general his name is

518
00:21:06,830 --> 00:21:05,039
General Bermudez

519
00:21:08,570 --> 00:21:06,840
um they were not interacting with the

520
00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:08,580
Americans and they were completely on

521
00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:11,520
their own doing what they were doing so

522
00:21:14,510 --> 00:21:13,260
who knows what goes on though that you

523
00:21:17,630 --> 00:21:14,520
don't know about

524
00:21:21,529 --> 00:21:17,640
there was yeah exactly

525
00:21:24,770 --> 00:21:21,539
um well with uh with James in the new

526
00:21:27,770 --> 00:21:24,780
film uh you know I'm gonna include

527
00:21:30,529 --> 00:21:27,780
myself in this I I don't like to inject

528
00:21:32,810 --> 00:21:30,539
my opinions but when you get to that

529
00:21:34,549 --> 00:21:32,820
part of the film where everything is

530
00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:34,559
trying to get resolved

531
00:21:39,890 --> 00:21:37,320
it it the ending is the United States

532
00:21:42,049 --> 00:21:39,900
comes in and brings a plane down and

533
00:21:45,770 --> 00:21:42,059
carts off everything and and the body

534
00:21:48,110 --> 00:21:45,780
and and we don't know the end of this

535
00:21:50,270 --> 00:21:48,120
story now you know you know from James

536
00:21:54,110 --> 00:21:50,280
Fox and I think that a lot of this

537
00:21:57,169 --> 00:21:54,120
including myself go yeah man you know

538
00:21:59,450 --> 00:21:57,179
it's always that it's always so

539
00:22:01,730 --> 00:21:59,460
frustrating I know but you know the end

540
00:22:04,430 --> 00:22:01,740
of the story is has not arrived but

541
00:22:06,049 --> 00:22:04,440
James is still working on it so yeah I

542
00:22:08,210 --> 00:22:06,059
hope there'll be more to come on that

543
00:22:11,810 --> 00:22:08,220
it's just a really really hard one to

544
00:22:13,370 --> 00:22:11,820
unravel but yeah I mean I have no doubt

545
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:13,380
that the Americans came in on that in

546
00:22:17,450 --> 00:22:15,120
fact I've had that confirmed for me by

547
00:22:19,669 --> 00:22:17,460
sources here in America that that indeed

548
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:19,679
did happen the Americans jumped in and

549
00:22:23,810 --> 00:22:22,320
grabbed the stuff and so he we it's

550
00:22:26,570 --> 00:22:23,820
somewhere sitting somewhere in America

551
00:22:28,970 --> 00:22:26,580
and we don't know anything about it now

552
00:22:30,470 --> 00:22:28,980
let's go back again let's turn back a

553
00:22:33,409 --> 00:22:30,480
couple of pages I want to talk about

554
00:22:36,010 --> 00:22:33,419
Belgium and

555
00:22:40,669 --> 00:22:36,020
um you know going back to like UFO 101

556
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:40,679
when you start looking at the history of

557
00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:43,919
of this subject one one place stands out

558
00:22:49,250 --> 00:22:46,980
that two years in Belgium was an

559
00:22:51,529 --> 00:22:49,260
absolutely incredible ride and your

560
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:51,539
research into that

561
00:22:56,270 --> 00:22:54,000
um uh it's so complete

562
00:22:59,930 --> 00:22:56,280
um well incomplete too as well because

563
00:23:01,730 --> 00:22:59,940
it's always incomplete but um it's uh

564
00:23:05,090 --> 00:23:01,740
it's an amount of work that you put into

565
00:23:07,610 --> 00:23:05,100
that that I invite anybody to go when

566
00:23:10,730 --> 00:23:07,620
we're talking about Belgium to go and

567
00:23:13,789 --> 00:23:10,740
and look at Leslie's research there when

568
00:23:16,789 --> 00:23:13,799
you found out about Belgium as you know

569
00:23:19,370 --> 00:23:16,799
because this was uh you said 1999 when

570
00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:19,380
you got the committed report yeah Harold

571
00:23:26,210 --> 00:23:23,520
Belgium that was a huge huge deal do you

572
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:26,220
remember when that was actually going

573
00:23:31,070 --> 00:23:29,039
off in the media originally I don't I

574
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:31,080
don't remember that I mean maybe the

575
00:23:34,970 --> 00:23:32,880
Hudson Valley wave which was a few years

576
00:23:37,070 --> 00:23:34,980
before that there were but there is

577
00:23:39,470 --> 00:23:37,080
barely any media coverage of that it was

578
00:23:41,390 --> 00:23:39,480
pathetic how little there was I mean I

579
00:23:44,029 --> 00:23:41,400
think I maybe remember one or two little

580
00:23:45,890 --> 00:23:44,039
tiny stories but no I didn't remember

581
00:23:48,649 --> 00:23:45,900
anything about Belgium in the American

582
00:23:50,450 --> 00:23:48,659
Media no I I just saw I learned all

583
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:50,460
about that later when I was writing my

584
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:52,559
book and got to meet you know Wilfred

585
00:23:57,169 --> 00:23:54,720
debrauer who was the major player in

586
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:57,179
that and just so people know he actually

587
00:24:00,830 --> 00:23:59,039
wrote the chapter you're talking about

588
00:24:03,710 --> 00:24:00,840
with all this great research well he

589
00:24:05,810 --> 00:24:03,720
actually wrote that chapter not me so

590
00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:05,820
one of the reasons I think my book is

591
00:24:11,149 --> 00:24:09,360
interesting is because I invited like 70

592
00:24:14,029 --> 00:24:11,159
I think it was 17 other people to

593
00:24:16,010 --> 00:24:14,039
contribute chapters besides me so you're

594
00:24:18,409 --> 00:24:16,020
not you're hearing from these generals

595
00:24:19,730 --> 00:24:18,419
and these high-level people in their for

596
00:24:21,230 --> 00:24:19,740
you're hearing directly from them in

597
00:24:23,690 --> 00:24:21,240
their own words and I thought I really

598
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:23,700
love doing that I liked for him to be I

599
00:24:28,250 --> 00:24:24,960
mean I wrote a chapter on the Belgian

600
00:24:31,130 --> 00:24:28,260
wave also but I love the fact that you

601
00:24:33,289 --> 00:24:31,140
get to read his words and he was

602
00:24:35,330 --> 00:24:33,299
directly involved and he has his own

603
00:24:38,210 --> 00:24:35,340
Nuance in his own way of portraying it

604
00:24:39,770 --> 00:24:38,220
that I find really fascinating so yeah I

605
00:24:41,570 --> 00:24:39,780
love that it's one thing I real I can

606
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:41,580
say I love about my book is the chapters

607
00:24:44,510 --> 00:24:42,960
written by all these different people

608
00:24:46,970 --> 00:24:44,520
they're different styles they're

609
00:24:49,610 --> 00:24:46,980
different experiences you know the pilot

610
00:24:52,549 --> 00:24:49,620
who almost tried to shoot down the UFO

611
00:24:54,169 --> 00:24:52,559
over Iran I figured like why should I

612
00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:54,179
tell you what he said and give little

613
00:24:59,450 --> 00:24:55,919
quotes why not just let him tell the

614
00:25:03,310 --> 00:24:59,460
story so that's what I did yeah I see I

615
00:25:07,010 --> 00:25:05,510
I think you forget I think some people

616
00:25:08,690 --> 00:25:07,020
forget when they're reading a chapter by

617
00:25:12,350 --> 00:25:08,700
someone else that it's actually written

618
00:25:13,970 --> 00:25:12,360
by someone else the

619
00:25:16,430 --> 00:25:13,980
um and staying on Belgium for a second

620
00:25:20,570 --> 00:25:16,440
it it was

621
00:25:23,270 --> 00:25:20,580
um it was it was a case as as you

622
00:25:27,409 --> 00:25:23,280
started to find out for sure that had

623
00:25:29,330 --> 00:25:27,419
all of the elements you had civilian and

624
00:25:31,010 --> 00:25:29,340
local law enforcement on the ground with

625
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:31,020
their sightings

626
00:25:34,850 --> 00:25:32,880
um you had multiple sightings at the

627
00:25:38,930 --> 00:25:34,860
same time that were confirmed the the

628
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:38,940
the the the civilian uh not military

629
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:41,520
radio chatter with you know sending

630
00:25:46,370 --> 00:25:43,200
things out to the sightings in the sky

631
00:25:48,590 --> 00:25:46,380
all the way through to pilots and

632
00:25:51,649 --> 00:25:48,600
scrambled Jets and radar data and press

633
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:51,659
conferences and and Colonels in generals

634
00:25:57,169 --> 00:25:54,960
going on the record it was a Hysteria it

635
00:25:58,430 --> 00:25:57,179
was a fantastic it was such a I

636
00:26:00,830 --> 00:25:58,440
encourage everyone to look into that

637
00:26:03,169 --> 00:26:00,840
it's so fascinating yeah and what was

638
00:26:04,909 --> 00:26:03,179
amazing to me about it was the

639
00:26:07,130 --> 00:26:04,919
difference in the way that was handled

640
00:26:09,710 --> 00:26:07,140
versus the way the Hudson Valley wave

641
00:26:11,870 --> 00:26:09,720
was handled which was a very similar it

642
00:26:15,169 --> 00:26:11,880
just happened five years earlier four

643
00:26:16,490 --> 00:26:15,179
years earlier and I I it just was so

644
00:26:19,549 --> 00:26:16,500
interesting to me to compare and

645
00:26:21,590 --> 00:26:19,559
contrast really that was handled

646
00:26:23,690 --> 00:26:21,600
completely openly the Air Force was

647
00:26:25,070 --> 00:26:23,700
asked to to get you know to get involved

648
00:26:28,190 --> 00:26:25,080
and try to figure out what these things

649
00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:28,200
were and they they worked with the

650
00:26:33,409 --> 00:26:30,240
scientific community directly they they

651
00:26:35,090 --> 00:26:33,419
gathered volumes I went and saw these

652
00:26:37,010 --> 00:26:35,100
volumes and volumes and volumes and

653
00:26:38,090 --> 00:26:37,020
volumes of hard copy data that they

654
00:26:40,250 --> 00:26:38,100
collected

655
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:40,260
all in cooperation with scientists and

656
00:26:45,830 --> 00:26:42,240
government I mean back in the those days

657
00:26:47,630 --> 00:26:45,840
you know it was pre-2017 that just kind

658
00:26:49,370 --> 00:26:47,640
of thing never happened here and when

659
00:26:51,590 --> 00:26:49,380
the Hudson Valley Way was happening it

660
00:26:54,590 --> 00:26:51,600
was just nobody paid any attention to it

661
00:26:56,090 --> 00:26:54,600
it was just like ignored

662
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:56,100
um and people didn't know what to do

663
00:26:58,850 --> 00:26:57,600
they didn't know who to turn to with

664
00:27:01,250 --> 00:26:58,860
reports

665
00:27:03,529 --> 00:27:01,260
uh it was just really shocking you know

666
00:27:07,070 --> 00:27:03,539
J.L and Hallock wrote this essay about

667
00:27:08,450 --> 00:27:07,080
the that right before he died which I

668
00:27:10,130 --> 00:27:08,460
find to be one of the most compelling

669
00:27:13,970 --> 00:27:10,140
things I've ever read where he just

670
00:27:16,250 --> 00:27:13,980
expresses his utter astonishment at at

671
00:27:18,049 --> 00:27:16,260
the dereliction of Duty that he as he

672
00:27:20,149 --> 00:27:18,059
calls it that that went on during that

673
00:27:21,950 --> 00:27:20,159
Hudson Valley wave he was trying to

674
00:27:24,049 --> 00:27:21,960
understand what was going on in the

675
00:27:26,169 --> 00:27:24,059
mindset of these authorities who

676
00:27:28,130 --> 00:27:26,179
completely ignored this absolutely

677
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:28,140
extraordinary thing that was happening

678
00:27:35,950 --> 00:27:30,480
in their backyard right it was just like

679
00:27:40,549 --> 00:27:38,570
thousands of witnesses pulling over on

680
00:27:41,870 --> 00:27:40,559
the freeway right exactly

681
00:27:44,269 --> 00:27:41,880
and

682
00:27:47,690 --> 00:27:44,279
um what is fascinating about Hudson

683
00:27:50,510 --> 00:27:47,700
Valley and and and Belgium if those

684
00:27:51,890 --> 00:27:50,520
events went down today it would have

685
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:51,900
been totally totally a different story

686
00:27:56,330 --> 00:27:54,240
absolutely I really agree with you and I

687
00:27:59,269 --> 00:27:56,340
same thing about the O'Hare incident of

688
00:28:00,890 --> 00:27:59,279
2006 which is really that and

689
00:28:02,510 --> 00:28:00,900
Stephenville are sort of the most recent

690
00:28:05,810 --> 00:28:02,520
really good cases we've had I think

691
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:05,820
prior to to Nimitz or yeah I guess they

692
00:28:09,409 --> 00:28:06,960
were after Nimbus but we didn't hear

693
00:28:11,390 --> 00:28:09,419
about Nimitz until later so you know

694
00:28:13,130 --> 00:28:11,400
imagine if there was a disc hovering

695
00:28:15,169 --> 00:28:13,140
over an airport now for five minutes

696
00:28:17,390 --> 00:28:15,179
over over the gate you know not that

697
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:17,400
high up I would be a big deal it's not

698
00:28:22,130 --> 00:28:20,159
they can't do this anymore we're in a

699
00:28:24,409 --> 00:28:22,140
new world now so and that's that's a

700
00:28:27,169 --> 00:28:24,419
really great thing I mean

701
00:28:30,169 --> 00:28:27,179
so I hope they come back with another

702
00:28:32,810 --> 00:28:30,179
wave for us yeah right right right I

703
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:32,820
mean it goes without saying but could

704
00:28:38,390 --> 00:28:36,960
you imagine a live stream on Facebook of

705
00:28:42,649 --> 00:28:38,400
O'Hare

706
00:28:44,029 --> 00:28:42,659
right whoa I mean it just it wouldn't it

707
00:28:46,010 --> 00:28:44,039
would not have been treated the way it

708
00:28:49,010 --> 00:28:46,020
was it they couldn't get away with it

709
00:28:52,250 --> 00:28:49,020
treating it the way they did then

710
00:28:55,250 --> 00:28:52,260
um and and and stay I I want to stay on

711
00:28:56,269 --> 00:28:55,260
Belgium for a second uh because there

712
00:28:58,789 --> 00:28:56,279
was

713
00:29:00,289 --> 00:28:58,799
when when those press conferences

714
00:29:02,570 --> 00:29:00,299
started

715
00:29:04,490 --> 00:29:02,580
um I don't think I mean going back to

716
00:29:05,870 --> 00:29:04,500
General Stanford right I think when was

717
00:29:09,350 --> 00:29:05,880
the last time we had a press conference

718
00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:09,360
like that where evidence was what the

719
00:29:15,409 --> 00:29:12,240
Iraq invasion right I don't know

720
00:29:18,409 --> 00:29:15,419
um uh where you had military officials

721
00:29:20,990 --> 00:29:18,419
uh in front of the press running a

722
00:29:23,870 --> 00:29:21,000
television screen uh with gun camera

723
00:29:25,850 --> 00:29:23,880
footage I mean that was crazy town yeah

724
00:29:28,370 --> 00:29:25,860
I mean he was up I remember General

725
00:29:31,130 --> 00:29:28,380
Dubrow was up and he had these these uh

726
00:29:33,889 --> 00:29:31,140
radar you know signatures

727
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:33,899
that he was showing to everybody in a

728
00:29:38,210 --> 00:29:36,480
packed Press Room and he was explaining

729
00:29:41,210 --> 00:29:38,220
what data they had

730
00:29:43,970 --> 00:29:41,220
like there's nothing secret about it

731
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:43,980
when we go back

732
00:29:52,190 --> 00:29:48,240
and and talk about Belgium do you think

733
00:29:55,789 --> 00:29:52,200
there is a possibility that that may

734
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:55,799
have been our craft being test flown I

735
00:30:00,350 --> 00:29:57,360
mean I think that's always a possibility

736
00:30:02,029 --> 00:30:00,360
I have to yeah I do I mean as far as

737
00:30:04,370 --> 00:30:02,039
General de Brower I mean he was a

738
00:30:07,490 --> 00:30:04,380
colonel at the time but he spoke to the

739
00:30:08,930 --> 00:30:07,500
NATO NATO allies he spoke to high-level

740
00:30:11,450 --> 00:30:08,940
officials in the United States He

741
00:30:12,789 --> 00:30:11,460
personally was convinced it was not uh

742
00:30:15,710 --> 00:30:12,799
U.S technology

743
00:30:17,450 --> 00:30:15,720
uh and he was essentially told that but

744
00:30:20,330 --> 00:30:17,460
that doesn't mean you know maybe it was

745
00:30:22,010 --> 00:30:20,340
because if it was I'm not sure we would

746
00:30:24,230 --> 00:30:22,020
just go tell General de Brower that it

747
00:30:27,169 --> 00:30:24,240
was you know so I think we always have

748
00:30:29,210 --> 00:30:27,179
to keep that as a possibility I mean I I

749
00:30:32,210 --> 00:30:29,220
I I don't know what kind of secret

750
00:30:36,110 --> 00:30:32,220
technology we might have I suspect it's

751
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:36,120
we have more than any of us are aware of

752
00:30:41,570 --> 00:30:39,120
so it was recent enough I suppose that

753
00:30:43,789 --> 00:30:41,580
you know it was still a while ago but

754
00:30:46,130 --> 00:30:43,799
the people who saw it certainly could

755
00:30:47,690 --> 00:30:46,140
never even imagine that it could be to

756
00:30:51,490 --> 00:30:47,700
our technology

757
00:30:54,409 --> 00:30:51,500
but I live I live um

758
00:30:57,289 --> 00:30:54,419
uh I have a full disclosure I live about

759
00:31:00,010 --> 00:30:57,299
a mile and a half from Skunk Works right

760
00:31:04,010 --> 00:31:00,020
I'm out here in the desert in Palmdale

761
00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:04,020
and uh yeah right this is where it goes

762
00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:07,039
down this is where it's always gone down

763
00:31:16,010 --> 00:31:11,279
and there is stuff right there just is

764
00:31:18,409 --> 00:31:16,020
and the the suggestion that what we see

765
00:31:20,389 --> 00:31:18,419
now well what we're working on is 50

766
00:31:21,950 --> 00:31:20,399
years in the future right and we're

767
00:31:24,049 --> 00:31:21,960
seeing stuff

768
00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:24,059
um that was developed 50 years ago this

769
00:31:28,010 --> 00:31:25,679
modern technology that we're seeing

770
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:28,020
today and I would say in a general sense

771
00:31:32,149 --> 00:31:29,760
that is true

772
00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:32,159
but that doesn't take care of you know

773
00:31:37,850 --> 00:31:34,799
the tr-3b or black uh triangles or the

774
00:31:40,610 --> 00:31:37,860
Tic Tac or anti-gravity or or defying

775
00:31:41,930 --> 00:31:40,620
physics unless we are what a thousand

776
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:41,940
years in the future and I don't think

777
00:31:45,769 --> 00:31:44,159
that's where it is yeah I mean I just

778
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:45,779
don't know I'm really not in a position

779
00:31:50,330 --> 00:31:48,000
to know what technology goes with how

780
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,340
many years in the future but I just

781
00:31:53,630 --> 00:31:52,080
think you know we have to keep that as a

782
00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:53,640
I mean it's probably the only other

783
00:31:58,669 --> 00:31:55,919
possible explanation for those those

784
00:32:01,669 --> 00:31:58,679
objects that were over Belgium but the

785
00:32:03,710 --> 00:32:01,679
speed at which they could take off

786
00:32:05,510 --> 00:32:03,720
um you know the way they describe you

787
00:32:07,070 --> 00:32:05,520
know the silent hovering triangles and

788
00:32:09,409 --> 00:32:07,080
then in a blink of an eye they're just

789
00:32:11,450 --> 00:32:09,419
like gone like that right certainly they

790
00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:11,460
couldn't have any uh creature any living

791
00:32:14,769 --> 00:32:12,960
creatures inside of them you wouldn't

792
00:32:17,210 --> 00:32:14,779
think that could survive that kind of

793
00:32:19,610 --> 00:32:17,220
acceleration so

794
00:32:21,710 --> 00:32:19,620
I don't know I mean it doesn't sound

795
00:32:24,409 --> 00:32:21,720
like it was our technology from what

796
00:32:26,090 --> 00:32:24,419
they describe but I think you just never

797
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:26,100
know 100 you got to leave that

798
00:32:34,010 --> 00:32:30,480
possibility open as a journalist

799
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:34,020
um and you you take a look at the we're

800
00:32:38,570 --> 00:32:35,279
in the middle of some pretty crazy

801
00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:38,580
hysteria right now and when you look at

802
00:32:44,750 --> 00:32:42,240
this and you are asked all the time well

803
00:32:46,750 --> 00:32:44,760
what's the deal is it E.T is it UFOs are

804
00:32:49,549 --> 00:32:46,760
they real are they actually visiting us

805
00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:49,559
you've answered that question so many

806
00:32:55,310 --> 00:32:52,320
times but how do you feel personally

807
00:32:57,649 --> 00:32:55,320
about the phenomenon now and and has it

808
00:32:59,570 --> 00:32:57,659
fundamentally changed uh over the last

809
00:33:01,549 --> 00:32:59,580
20 30 years

810
00:33:03,169 --> 00:33:01,559
well I mean the basic way I think it's

811
00:33:05,210 --> 00:33:03,179
changed for me is that I recognize

812
00:33:07,070 --> 00:33:05,220
there's a lot more complexity to it than

813
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:07,080
I originally thought

814
00:33:11,870 --> 00:33:10,320
um how so well I mean back in the day

815
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:11,880
when I was writing and then at the time

816
00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:14,159
of my book the sort of going Theory at

817
00:33:17,570 --> 00:33:15,600
that time was the Extraterrestrial

818
00:33:19,310 --> 00:33:17,580
hypothesis just like the generals and

819
00:33:22,970 --> 00:33:19,320
the people in the committee report had

820
00:33:24,529 --> 00:33:22,980
said in in 1999 and that's what to the

821
00:33:26,269 --> 00:33:24,539
extent that any of the people who

822
00:33:28,669 --> 00:33:26,279
contributed to my book were willing to

823
00:33:30,909 --> 00:33:28,679
say what they thought it was they always

824
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:30,919
said it that way which really meant

825
00:33:36,110 --> 00:33:33,840
visitors from some other solar system or

826
00:33:38,450 --> 00:33:36,120
some other part of the Galaxy traveling

827
00:33:40,070 --> 00:33:38,460
in spaceships to get here that's how

828
00:33:41,090 --> 00:33:40,080
they were thinking of it and you know

829
00:33:43,610 --> 00:33:41,100
now

830
00:33:45,889 --> 00:33:43,620
uh I don't think of the phenomenon as

831
00:33:48,350 --> 00:33:45,899
being anywhere near that simple I mean I

832
00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:48,360
don't think we know you know it's got

833
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:51,120
it's just it's as everyone talks about

834
00:33:55,549 --> 00:33:53,760
it's you can't just label it that simply

835
00:33:58,029 --> 00:33:55,559
right it's got it could be

836
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:58,039
interdimensional it could be

837
00:34:02,330 --> 00:34:00,480
ultra-terrestrial it could be some could

838
00:34:04,009 --> 00:34:02,340
be some things and some could be

839
00:34:07,009 --> 00:34:04,019
something else it has all these

840
00:34:09,230 --> 00:34:07,019
paranormal aspects to it it's just this

841
00:34:12,109 --> 00:34:09,240
and it seems to get more and more hard

842
00:34:14,089 --> 00:34:12,119
to pin down the more we learn about it

843
00:34:16,129 --> 00:34:14,099
so I'm much more sort of I think that

844
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:16,139
you know Jacques valet was sort of ahead

845
00:34:20,690 --> 00:34:18,000
of everyone on that you know I'm much

846
00:34:22,970 --> 00:34:20,700
more in that camp now of seeing it

847
00:34:24,589 --> 00:34:22,980
through a much broader lens than I used

848
00:34:28,070 --> 00:34:24,599
to see it

849
00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:28,080
um and yeah so that's the main

850
00:34:35,869 --> 00:34:31,440
difference let me let me jump in and ask

851
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:35,879
you why and and the reason for such a

852
00:34:41,810 --> 00:34:38,879
general question when I say why is it

853
00:34:44,089 --> 00:34:41,820
because of the size of our Milky Way

854
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:44,099
it's ginormous right and the amount of

855
00:34:49,250 --> 00:34:46,560
exoplanets and then you go beyond that

856
00:34:53,389 --> 00:34:49,260
and the size of the universe that it

857
00:34:56,030 --> 00:34:53,399
made not just be one single species some

858
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:56,040
Advanced extraterrestrial civilization

859
00:35:01,250 --> 00:34:59,280
visiting us it could be thousands and

860
00:35:02,690 --> 00:35:01,260
they could just do a drive-by once and

861
00:35:05,150 --> 00:35:02,700
then we're seeing something else the

862
00:35:07,370 --> 00:35:05,160
next time that's why things don't line

863
00:35:10,250 --> 00:35:07,380
up case after case

864
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:10,260
could be I mean I I just don't know and

865
00:35:15,290 --> 00:35:13,440
it's very mysterious the variety of you

866
00:35:16,910 --> 00:35:15,300
know objects and and reports that we

867
00:35:18,170 --> 00:35:16,920
have of different types of creatures and

868
00:35:20,329 --> 00:35:18,180
all of that

869
00:35:23,510 --> 00:35:20,339
I don't know I mean it's also possible

870
00:35:25,250 --> 00:35:23,520
that there have been uh you know beings

871
00:35:27,770 --> 00:35:25,260
I mean I think there have been beings

872
00:35:30,410 --> 00:35:27,780
here long before we ever got here

873
00:35:31,849 --> 00:35:30,420
or certainly the go back way way back in

874
00:35:34,190 --> 00:35:31,859
history there have been

875
00:35:36,650 --> 00:35:34,200
visitors from somewhere else who maybe

876
00:35:38,750 --> 00:35:36,660
have decided to come stay here and then

877
00:35:41,089 --> 00:35:38,760
we came after that I mean

878
00:35:42,530 --> 00:35:41,099
it's so complicated

879
00:35:45,230 --> 00:35:42,540
um and I think it's not some I think

880
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:45,240
it's more that Moore has there's been

881
00:35:49,130 --> 00:35:46,800
more knowledge there's been more that's

882
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:49,140
come out about the sort of stranger

883
00:35:54,530 --> 00:35:52,320
aspects of the of the UFO phenomenon

884
00:35:56,750 --> 00:35:54,540
such as the the skin workers at the

885
00:35:58,910 --> 00:35:56,760
Pentagon book for instance you know

886
00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:58,920
there's so much more data now showing

887
00:36:03,710 --> 00:36:01,200
these sort of more bizarre elements of

888
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:03,720
it that are you just can't pin down to

889
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:05,520
oh they're visitors from some other

890
00:36:09,710 --> 00:36:06,960
planet

891
00:36:13,130 --> 00:36:09,720
it's just you know it's impossible to to

892
00:36:15,890 --> 00:36:13,140
box it in like that is it because we've

893
00:36:18,770 --> 00:36:15,900
just reached our ceiling of being able

894
00:36:20,750 --> 00:36:18,780
to understand certain things right if we

895
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:20,760
just I don't know what sometimes I feel

896
00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:22,560
like I'll probably never understand what

897
00:36:26,270 --> 00:36:24,960
this is I mean maybe maybe we're not

898
00:36:27,890 --> 00:36:26,280
capable of understanding I know Jim

899
00:36:30,829 --> 00:36:27,900
semivan has made some really interesting

900
00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:30,839
comments along those lines you know that

901
00:36:36,050 --> 00:36:32,640
maybe the human being will never

902
00:36:37,970 --> 00:36:36,060
understand it uh and we just can't and

903
00:36:39,710 --> 00:36:37,980
maybe we're not meant to or it's it's

904
00:36:41,470 --> 00:36:39,720
you know you can also think of it maybe

905
00:36:44,750 --> 00:36:41,480
it's up to the phenomenon itself

906
00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:44,760
whatever whoever it is how much we're

907
00:36:48,109 --> 00:36:46,920
going to be understanding it what you

908
00:36:49,930 --> 00:36:48,119
know how much are they going to reveal

909
00:36:54,069 --> 00:36:49,940
to us

910
00:36:57,349 --> 00:36:54,079
and not to go like uh some intangible

911
00:37:00,349 --> 00:36:57,359
existential situation here but if we

912
00:37:02,329 --> 00:37:00,359
just go with black and white and if we

913
00:37:05,510 --> 00:37:02,339
jumped in a time machine and went back

914
00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:05,520
50 000 Years and we're dealing with homo

915
00:37:10,130 --> 00:37:08,760
sapien sapien back then about these

916
00:37:12,410 --> 00:37:10,140
basic things that we're talking about

917
00:37:16,670 --> 00:37:12,420
right they would have abs their their

918
00:37:19,310 --> 00:37:16,680
knowledge sealing is way off kilter as

919
00:37:21,050 --> 00:37:19,320
to what they could understand maybe

920
00:37:23,690 --> 00:37:21,060
that's where we are today I mean they

921
00:37:26,030 --> 00:37:23,700
just what how far how much can we

922
00:37:28,310 --> 00:37:26,040
understand the future will be different

923
00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:28,320
but right now we're having trouble with

924
00:37:32,030 --> 00:37:30,480
it and it's only because we Are Who We

925
00:37:34,010 --> 00:37:32,040
Are

926
00:37:37,210 --> 00:37:34,020
yeah

927
00:37:40,750 --> 00:37:37,220
I don't know what to say to that

928
00:37:43,730 --> 00:37:40,760
well and and and and

929
00:37:47,329 --> 00:37:43,740
this is why I agree with everything that

930
00:37:50,589 --> 00:37:47,339
you just said if I think about what I

931
00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:50,599
used to think about you know the the

932
00:37:57,650 --> 00:37:54,480
uh the the hypothesis generally speaking

933
00:38:00,589 --> 00:37:57,660
I think we were all there metal ship

934
00:38:03,829 --> 00:38:00,599
little dude exactly at the at the

935
00:38:07,130 --> 00:38:03,839
controls rivets right said it's cruising

936
00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:07,140
Across the Universe for uh some crazy

937
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:10,800
length of time and arriving here I am so

938
00:38:14,750 --> 00:38:13,440
far away from that now also I think

939
00:38:16,970 --> 00:38:14,760
everyone is you know I think the

940
00:38:20,510 --> 00:38:16,980
understanding has really expanded and

941
00:38:21,950 --> 00:38:20,520
and to what yeah it's just something way

942
00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:21,960
more than that

943
00:38:27,530 --> 00:38:25,440
way more difficult to understand a lot

944
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:27,540
more complexity and different dimensions

945
00:38:33,050 --> 00:38:30,000
to it than something like that

946
00:38:35,290 --> 00:38:33,060
um and so you know it just makes it

947
00:38:39,470 --> 00:38:35,300
harder and harder to pin it down

948
00:38:42,050 --> 00:38:39,480
when um when you started to get exposed

949
00:38:45,770 --> 00:38:42,060
to all of the information back in in

950
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:45,780
2017 leading up to the article in

951
00:38:51,650 --> 00:38:48,720
December with you and Ralph

952
00:38:53,750 --> 00:38:51,660
um this starts to open up those doors

953
00:38:56,329 --> 00:38:53,760
where

954
00:38:57,710 --> 00:38:56,339
um the suggestions from Jacques or or

955
00:39:00,050 --> 00:38:57,720
others

956
00:39:02,810 --> 00:39:00,060
um certainly come into play because the

957
00:39:06,050 --> 00:39:02,820
physics behind the Tic Tac as described

958
00:39:08,690 --> 00:39:06,060
by by David fravor absolutely made no

959
00:39:10,910 --> 00:39:08,700
sense that and and coming up to that we

960
00:39:13,250 --> 00:39:10,920
never really talked about UFOs in in

961
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:13,260
those terms how did you start to deal

962
00:39:21,950 --> 00:39:16,800
with that you mean with the that case in

963
00:39:24,770 --> 00:39:21,960
particular yes yes I mean I I was

964
00:39:28,069 --> 00:39:24,780
stunned by that case it was you know I I

965
00:39:29,569 --> 00:39:28,079
we we actually included a section in the

966
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:29,579
New York Times story just about that

967
00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:32,640
case but it was only the you know it was

968
00:39:35,150 --> 00:39:34,260
it didn't include all of it by a long

969
00:39:37,550 --> 00:39:35,160
shot

970
00:39:39,470 --> 00:39:37,560
but um I think it I think it was the

971
00:39:41,930 --> 00:39:39,480
first time that Dave fraver had come

972
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:41,940
forward I'm not sure but

973
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:42,720
um

974
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:44,880
I remember meeting him when I went with

975
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:47,040
Helene Cooper the the reporter from the

976
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:48,720
times that we had dinner with him in DC

977
00:39:53,630 --> 00:39:51,359
for like in just hours listening to him

978
00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:53,640
tell that story she was absolutely blown

979
00:40:00,109 --> 00:39:56,400
away because she was new to all of this

980
00:40:02,690 --> 00:40:00,119
so um yeah I mean all the data that that

981
00:40:05,450 --> 00:40:02,700
case has is really extraordinary and the

982
00:40:08,930 --> 00:40:05,460
behavior of the object as you point out

983
00:40:11,089 --> 00:40:08,940
and you know yeah and which can can we

984
00:40:14,230 --> 00:40:11,099
stay right here for a second yeah

985
00:40:17,810 --> 00:40:14,240
um going up to that point when you're uh

986
00:40:20,270 --> 00:40:17,820
you're writing you're researching uh you

987
00:40:23,569 --> 00:40:20,280
know going back to comida or or Belgium

988
00:40:25,089 --> 00:40:23,579
and and the content of on the record uh

989
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:25,099
UFOs

990
00:40:28,910 --> 00:40:27,599
throw it on the record that's good on

991
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:28,920
the record

992
00:40:33,710 --> 00:40:32,160
um everything was uh described by

993
00:40:37,310 --> 00:40:33,720
Witnesses and Military and everything

994
00:40:39,770 --> 00:40:37,320
else in a certain way and now we've got

995
00:40:42,109 --> 00:40:39,780
hardcore science fiction going on this

996
00:40:44,510 --> 00:40:42,119
is like Way new stuff and if you're

997
00:40:46,970 --> 00:40:44,520
gonna write about it the public has to

998
00:40:49,790 --> 00:40:46,980
understand it along with you and and

999
00:40:51,890 --> 00:40:49,800
your friend getting exposed to this for

1000
00:40:54,109 --> 00:40:51,900
the first time like that that's kind of

1001
00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:54,119
your barometer and you know the way that

1002
00:40:58,670 --> 00:40:55,920
the public would look at this too right

1003
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:58,680
yeah I mean I I really think what you

1004
00:41:02,810 --> 00:41:00,720
said is right on that it's it's more

1005
00:41:04,430 --> 00:41:02,820
like science fiction now and in fact one

1006
00:41:08,089 --> 00:41:04,440
of the early briefing slides from the

1007
00:41:10,609 --> 00:41:08,099
atip program that I saw said that um you

1008
00:41:12,109 --> 00:41:10,619
know it was a little little blurb they

1009
00:41:14,089 --> 00:41:12,119
had at the bottom of the breathing site

1010
00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:14,099
it said science fiction is now science

1011
00:41:19,310 --> 00:41:17,040
fact and this was like 10 years ago

1012
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:19,320
I think that's sort of that sort of sums

1013
00:41:22,430 --> 00:41:20,160
it up

1014
00:41:24,770 --> 00:41:22,440
I mean I guess you could say that the

1015
00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:24,780
notion of extraterrestrial Travelers and

1016
00:41:29,089 --> 00:41:26,760
metal spaceships is also like science

1017
00:41:30,829 --> 00:41:29,099
fiction but not in the same way that of

1018
00:41:33,050 --> 00:41:30,839
what we're dealing with now

1019
00:41:34,849 --> 00:41:33,060
just because of all the components of

1020
00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:34,859
this phenomenon that have come out right

1021
00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:37,680
I mean and that includes the kind of

1022
00:41:42,470 --> 00:41:39,839
things that occurred at Skinwalker Ranch

1023
00:41:44,210 --> 00:41:42,480
and people's Consciousness being

1024
00:41:46,670 --> 00:41:44,220
affected by sightings

1025
00:41:48,530 --> 00:41:46,680
uh you know different changes that go on

1026
00:41:50,630 --> 00:41:48,540
in people after they have events like

1027
00:41:52,970 --> 00:41:50,640
this all the close encounter events and

1028
00:41:56,569 --> 00:41:52,980
how you know there's a whole mixture of

1029
00:41:58,790 --> 00:41:56,579
conglomeration of of phenomena that make

1030
00:42:01,550 --> 00:41:58,800
up the UAP

1031
00:42:03,770 --> 00:42:01,560
um and it's not simple at all so it is

1032
00:42:06,589 --> 00:42:03,780
kind of more science fictiony the more

1033
00:42:10,430 --> 00:42:06,599
we learn the weirder it gets are you

1034
00:42:13,130 --> 00:42:10,440
still in in contact with uh your your

1035
00:42:15,770 --> 00:42:13,140
military friends from around the world

1036
00:42:19,609 --> 00:42:15,780
yeah I mean not as it depends who but

1037
00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:19,619
not as much as I was but before 2017.

1038
00:42:23,569 --> 00:42:22,079
I've been you know yeah not quite as

1039
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:23,579
much but it depends who you're talking

1040
00:42:32,390 --> 00:42:28,800
about the the reason why I ask is the

1041
00:42:34,069 --> 00:42:32,400
the Tic Tac and and things like that and

1042
00:42:36,190 --> 00:42:34,079
certainly we can go East Coast West

1043
00:42:40,670 --> 00:42:36,200
Coast you know Roosevelt what have you

1044
00:42:43,310 --> 00:42:40,680
but can't only be the United States Navy

1045
00:42:46,849 --> 00:42:43,320
right this is a global phenomenon

1046
00:42:50,210 --> 00:42:46,859
wouldn't this be happening with navies

1047
00:42:54,650 --> 00:42:50,220
of South America or Australia or or

1048
00:42:57,970 --> 00:42:54,660
Russia or China uh Great Britain are

1049
00:43:00,950 --> 00:42:57,980
there other reports of of tick-tac-ish

1050
00:43:04,609 --> 00:43:00,960
events going on I mean I I don't not

1051
00:43:06,109 --> 00:43:04,619
that I can really think of post 2017 no

1052
00:43:07,790 --> 00:43:06,119
I mean and of course if they went on in

1053
00:43:09,849 --> 00:43:07,800
Russia or China we might might not know

1054
00:43:12,530 --> 00:43:09,859
about it

1055
00:43:15,470 --> 00:43:12,540
I I haven't heard of any from South

1056
00:43:18,849 --> 00:43:15,480
America that are quite like that

1057
00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:18,859
um it's an interesting question yeah

1058
00:43:25,069 --> 00:43:21,839
in your opinion maybe it's U.S

1059
00:43:27,890 --> 00:43:25,079
technology right okay so I guess you

1060
00:43:30,650 --> 00:43:27,900
answered my question in your opinion uh

1061
00:43:33,290 --> 00:43:30,660
why why only the United States Navy and

1062
00:43:35,329 --> 00:43:33,300
and not even our Air Force right it

1063
00:43:37,550 --> 00:43:35,339
seems to be it seems like it's kind of a

1064
00:43:39,589 --> 00:43:37,560
one-off event or there's been no no Tic

1065
00:43:42,050 --> 00:43:39,599
Tac since and and there were some

1066
00:43:44,210 --> 00:43:42,060
earlier reports of the of tic tac-like

1067
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:44,220
objects like in the 50s and 60s I

1068
00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:46,800
remember Lou Elizondo had these really

1069
00:43:51,410 --> 00:43:49,680
interesting documents referencing one

1070
00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:51,420
that described it I think like a butane

1071
00:43:55,550 --> 00:43:53,040
tank or something another one you know

1072
00:43:57,589 --> 00:43:55,560
they described it in ways of so there

1073
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:57,599
have been similar shaped objects whether

1074
00:44:02,210 --> 00:43:59,520
they were behaving the same way as the

1075
00:44:05,329 --> 00:44:02,220
one in 2004 I'm not sure

1076
00:44:07,450 --> 00:44:05,339
so um yeah it's not like this has been a

1077
00:44:10,010 --> 00:44:07,460
recurring thing the way the way

1078
00:44:11,870 --> 00:44:10,020
triangles are or disc shapes objects you

1079
00:44:15,050 --> 00:44:11,880
know that people see a lot

1080
00:44:16,670 --> 00:44:15,060
so who knows why that is

1081
00:44:19,849 --> 00:44:16,680
um you know you have to keep open the

1082
00:44:22,010 --> 00:44:19,859
possibility that maybe it was some some

1083
00:44:25,309 --> 00:44:22,020
incredibly advanced technology being

1084
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:25,319
tested or something like that but

1085
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:27,359
nobody who was there thought that was

1086
00:44:31,550 --> 00:44:28,319
the case

1087
00:44:34,970 --> 00:44:31,560
the way I had uh Ryan Graves on last

1088
00:44:38,510 --> 00:44:34,980
week and uh and he's great and he's just

1089
00:44:41,150 --> 00:44:38,520
it's great and in speaking with him

1090
00:44:43,609 --> 00:44:41,160
I I can't help but ask the question

1091
00:44:48,170 --> 00:44:43,619
that's on everybody's mind it just can't

1092
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:48,180
be uh just off of our Shores that every

1093
00:44:52,910 --> 00:44:50,640
every military in the world must be

1094
00:44:56,030 --> 00:44:52,920
dealing with this uh in their own way it

1095
00:44:57,530 --> 00:44:56,040
just can't be just us well I I think

1096
00:44:58,670 --> 00:44:57,540
they are all dealing with it I mean is

1097
00:45:01,670 --> 00:44:58,680
there any reason to think that they're

1098
00:45:03,410 --> 00:45:01,680
not exactly they probably are I what to

1099
00:45:04,550 --> 00:45:03,420
what extent we would know about it I'm

1100
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:04,560
not sure

1101
00:45:08,450 --> 00:45:06,480
you know I mean every country has their

1102
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:08,460
own way of dealing with it and certainly

1103
00:45:11,650 --> 00:45:09,839
our adversaries are not going to

1104
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:11,660
broadcast it

1105
00:45:18,410 --> 00:45:16,319
you know and how do you uh with all of

1106
00:45:19,550 --> 00:45:18,420
this crashing down on the world so

1107
00:45:22,849 --> 00:45:19,560
quickly

1108
00:45:25,550 --> 00:45:22,859
um the the impact of of your article

1109
00:45:27,410 --> 00:45:25,560
with Ralph back in 2017 I don't think it

1110
00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:27,420
could be measured right the impact was

1111
00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:33,839
was was Broad and uh very very serious

1112
00:45:39,650 --> 00:45:36,480
but the world didn't implode either

1113
00:45:41,450 --> 00:45:39,660
right everybody did pretty well were you

1114
00:45:45,050 --> 00:45:41,460
surprised about that

1115
00:45:47,450 --> 00:45:45,060
that the world didn't implode yes

1116
00:45:49,250 --> 00:45:47,460
and well you know you said comida but if

1117
00:45:51,890 --> 00:45:49,260
you go to the Condon report or either

1118
00:45:54,109 --> 00:45:51,900
the Rand Corporation or the Robertson

1119
00:45:57,170 --> 00:45:54,119
committee you you look at all of the

1120
00:45:59,630 --> 00:45:57,180
professional analysis on what would

1121
00:46:01,069 --> 00:45:59,640
happen to humanity if this reveal

1122
00:46:04,970 --> 00:46:01,079
happened

1123
00:46:06,950 --> 00:46:04,980
December of 2017. I think the world took

1124
00:46:08,930 --> 00:46:06,960
it pretty well yeah I mean if you're

1125
00:46:11,150 --> 00:46:08,940
thinking about like people freaking out

1126
00:46:12,890 --> 00:46:11,160
if they sort of get it that UFOs are

1127
00:46:14,569 --> 00:46:12,900
real I mean I think the key there is

1128
00:46:16,670 --> 00:46:14,579
that that there's got to be a gradual

1129
00:46:19,010 --> 00:46:16,680
unfolding of information

1130
00:46:21,050 --> 00:46:19,020
and um it you know it's been fairly

1131
00:46:22,730 --> 00:46:21,060
great I mean that was just saying well

1132
00:46:24,710 --> 00:46:22,740
there's this agency there's this

1133
00:46:27,290 --> 00:46:24,720
department in the dod that's been

1134
00:46:29,930 --> 00:46:27,300
studying this for a while and uh here's

1135
00:46:31,370 --> 00:46:29,940
some videos you know and Harry Reid says

1136
00:46:34,190 --> 00:46:31,380
they're really important he would he got

1137
00:46:35,690 --> 00:46:34,200
the money for it and Lou Elizondo feels

1138
00:46:37,609 --> 00:46:35,700
there needs to be more resources for it

1139
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:37,619
so he resigned you know so it's that was

1140
00:46:40,970 --> 00:46:39,119
sort of like wow the government's been

1141
00:46:43,490 --> 00:46:40,980
studying it and they've even given us

1142
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:43,500
some videos here and then the next step

1143
00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:45,839
was kind of like you know finally our

1144
00:46:49,309 --> 00:46:48,000
government itself acknowledged that yes

1145
00:46:51,589 --> 00:46:49,319
they're real

1146
00:46:53,210 --> 00:46:51,599
but you know it's happened in steps and

1147
00:46:56,030 --> 00:46:53,220
the Navy says okay we need better

1148
00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:56,040
reporting methods then we get the 2021

1149
00:46:59,690 --> 00:46:58,079
report where they really do say these

1150
00:47:01,190 --> 00:46:59,700
are these things are real I mean that

1151
00:47:02,990 --> 00:47:01,200
was a real statement

1152
00:47:04,970 --> 00:47:03,000
they said that they're real we don't

1153
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,980
have evidence that they're ours we don't

1154
00:47:08,690 --> 00:47:06,480
have evidence that they're Russian or

1155
00:47:11,930 --> 00:47:08,700
Chinese you know no data showing us that

1156
00:47:14,630 --> 00:47:11,940
so it's been this sort of gradual step

1157
00:47:17,329 --> 00:47:14,640
stepping thing stepping stones from 2017

1158
00:47:19,730 --> 00:47:17,339
and then recently we've got the U.S

1159
00:47:21,109 --> 00:47:19,740
Congress asking for reports about crash

1160
00:47:22,569 --> 00:47:21,119
retrievals

1161
00:47:24,950 --> 00:47:22,579
I mean

1162
00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:24,960
we've really come it's been five years

1163
00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:26,400
but so I don't think it was like

1164
00:47:29,930 --> 00:47:28,800
everything was dumped on the world at

1165
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:29,940
once

1166
00:47:33,770 --> 00:47:32,160
I think maybe if everything was dumped

1167
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:33,780
at once there'd be a little more of a

1168
00:47:37,550 --> 00:47:35,520
reaction like you're talking about but

1169
00:47:40,910 --> 00:47:37,560
yeah why do you think why do you think

1170
00:47:44,710 --> 00:47:40,920
the reaction was so was subdued

1171
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:44,720
um that I I I I was driving in my car

1172
00:47:50,990 --> 00:47:48,000
and I'm listening to KFI the radio

1173
00:47:52,849 --> 00:47:51,000
station that I broadcast on right and in

1174
00:47:55,609 --> 00:47:52,859
Los Angeles the big talk radio station

1175
00:47:57,170 --> 00:47:55,619
so it's always on in my car I'm Church

1176
00:48:00,410 --> 00:47:57,180
Street

1177
00:48:02,450 --> 00:48:00,420
the government says UFOs are real we'll

1178
00:48:05,809 --> 00:48:02,460
tell you all about it after the break I

1179
00:48:05,819 --> 00:48:08,809
2017

1180
00:48:13,250 --> 00:48:11,450
. it was a big deal I I think I think it

1181
00:48:15,170 --> 00:48:13,260
was I mean I remember the reaction of

1182
00:48:18,290 --> 00:48:15,180
the article was absolutely huge all over

1183
00:48:21,530 --> 00:48:18,300
the world so it really was there was a

1184
00:48:25,730 --> 00:48:21,540
huge reaction to it but subdued I mean

1185
00:48:30,109 --> 00:48:25,740
the reaction was but I don't know I but

1186
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:30,119
no I I what I'm trying to uh Express is

1187
00:48:34,609 --> 00:48:32,400
when I would talk to right after that

1188
00:48:36,770 --> 00:48:34,619
yeah and I would talk to people outside

1189
00:48:40,130 --> 00:48:36,780
of the UFO game right just friends or

1190
00:48:43,370 --> 00:48:40,140
family whatever yeah of course there's

1191
00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:43,380
aliens visiting us I think you know the

1192
00:48:49,069 --> 00:48:45,839
universe is just too big it was like a

1193
00:48:52,309 --> 00:48:49,079
strange I thought that I was gonna get

1194
00:48:55,089 --> 00:48:52,319
something whoa are you kidding me no I

1195
00:48:58,370 --> 00:48:55,099
didn't get that at all it was very nice

1196
00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:58,380
yeah okay that's true I mean for us who

1197
00:49:02,329 --> 00:48:59,760
are interested in it it's the biggest

1198
00:49:04,670 --> 00:49:02,339
deal in the world right because we're

1199
00:49:06,890 --> 00:49:04,680
finally getting acknowledgment but yeah

1200
00:49:09,170 --> 00:49:06,900
for people who don't care

1201
00:49:11,329 --> 00:49:09,180
it probably wasn't a big deal and those

1202
00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:11,339
we forget that that's the majority of

1203
00:49:14,809 --> 00:49:12,720
the people out there

1204
00:49:17,030 --> 00:49:14,819
I just think the majority of the people

1205
00:49:18,829 --> 00:49:17,040
out there there they might think it's

1206
00:49:20,569 --> 00:49:18,839
sort of fun but they don't really care

1207
00:49:22,849 --> 00:49:20,579
that much about UFO so it's not going to

1208
00:49:24,890 --> 00:49:22,859
affect them very much I think that's the

1209
00:49:27,770 --> 00:49:24,900
point in making we we live in this

1210
00:49:30,410 --> 00:49:27,780
bubble of people who really care and for

1211
00:49:33,050 --> 00:49:30,420
us the littlest thing we get from our

1212
00:49:34,609 --> 00:49:33,060
government is like the biggest deal yeah

1213
00:49:36,109 --> 00:49:34,619
but for the average person out there

1214
00:49:38,809 --> 00:49:36,119
they don't care they don't know they

1215
00:49:41,329 --> 00:49:38,819
don't care they just want to you know to

1216
00:49:43,250 --> 00:49:41,339
live their daily lives and take care of

1217
00:49:46,450 --> 00:49:43,260
their families and

1218
00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:46,460
and how was how was the New York Times

1219
00:49:52,250 --> 00:49:50,400
uh uh attitude about this today is it

1220
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:52,260
still the same are they still pursuing

1221
00:49:56,510 --> 00:49:53,280
this

1222
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:56,520
um and and I'm asking because of uh so

1223
00:50:00,530 --> 00:49:58,319
many significant things happened in the

1224
00:50:03,950 --> 00:50:00,540
media and certainly centered around you

1225
00:50:06,890 --> 00:50:03,960
like New Yorker and and and that that

1226
00:50:10,010 --> 00:50:06,900
great piece uh that was written

1227
00:50:12,109 --> 00:50:10,020
um are are they still open to this is it

1228
00:50:13,010 --> 00:50:12,119
something that is the foot still on the

1229
00:50:16,250 --> 00:50:13,020
gas

1230
00:50:17,870 --> 00:50:16,260
well I I think I'd have to leave that up

1231
00:50:20,089 --> 00:50:17,880
to the people who read the New York

1232
00:50:22,130 --> 00:50:20,099
Times reporting that's been coming out

1233
00:50:24,290 --> 00:50:22,140
in the last you know I mean The Last

1234
00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:24,300
Story Ralph and I did was in July of

1235
00:50:29,390 --> 00:50:26,400
2021 and that was about the crash

1236
00:50:31,250 --> 00:50:29,400
retrieval scenario

1237
00:50:33,650 --> 00:50:31,260
um oh no and then we we did a story too

1238
00:50:36,589 --> 00:50:33,660
about the hearings in May last the May

1239
00:50:38,450 --> 00:50:36,599
uh Congressional hearings but

1240
00:50:40,010 --> 00:50:38,460
um there's been you know there's been

1241
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:40,020
some reporting in the New York Times

1242
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:42,720
since then by others uh that are on

1243
00:50:46,190 --> 00:50:44,400
staff there and I'm not going to comment

1244
00:50:48,950 --> 00:50:46,200
on them I think it's up to people who

1245
00:50:50,329 --> 00:50:48,960
read them to decide they think the New

1246
00:50:53,150 --> 00:50:50,339
York Times is at

1247
00:50:56,390 --> 00:50:53,160
um Ralph and I are Freelancers so we

1248
00:50:58,670 --> 00:50:56,400
have to you know we have to bring a

1249
00:51:00,710 --> 00:50:58,680
story to them and say hey we've got this

1250
00:51:03,170 --> 00:51:00,720
exclusive and it's got to be something

1251
00:51:05,690 --> 00:51:03,180
really special for them to run our story

1252
00:51:08,510 --> 00:51:05,700
it's very difficult for us to get a

1253
00:51:10,549 --> 00:51:08,520
story Into the times so until we bring

1254
00:51:11,690 --> 00:51:10,559
them our next story it's hard for me to

1255
00:51:15,470 --> 00:51:11,700
know

1256
00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:15,480
their position or not they've always

1257
00:51:20,450 --> 00:51:17,760
been open to our contributing stories if

1258
00:51:22,490 --> 00:51:20,460
they're really spectacular uh they're

1259
00:51:24,710 --> 00:51:22,500
not gonna you know they're not and so

1260
00:51:26,329 --> 00:51:24,720
for the less spectacular ones they just

1261
00:51:29,210 --> 00:51:26,339
hire they just have one of their staff

1262
00:51:32,030 --> 00:51:29,220
on it and maybe their staff don't have

1263
00:51:33,829 --> 00:51:32,040
the uh the knowledge about the topic

1264
00:51:37,130 --> 00:51:33,839
have very much knowledge about the topic

1265
00:51:39,230 --> 00:51:37,140
or maybe they have an agenda or you know

1266
00:51:40,670 --> 00:51:39,240
they they take a particular angle and I

1267
00:51:42,710 --> 00:51:40,680
don't know how much of that is the

1268
00:51:44,630 --> 00:51:42,720
position of the paper or how much it's

1269
00:51:46,549 --> 00:51:44,640
just the person who writes the story I

1270
00:51:48,530 --> 00:51:46,559
mean I'm not on the inside of the New

1271
00:51:51,650 --> 00:51:48,540
York Times because I'm a freelancer I'm

1272
00:51:53,750 --> 00:51:51,660
on the outside and so I only really get

1273
00:51:55,670 --> 00:51:53,760
to know what everyone else gets to know

1274
00:51:57,650 --> 00:51:55,680
who reads it who reads what they put out

1275
00:51:58,849 --> 00:51:57,660
and I just hope that Ralph and I are

1276
00:52:01,849 --> 00:51:58,859
going to be able to continue to report

1277
00:52:03,710 --> 00:52:01,859
for them when we get a story that will

1278
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:03,720
you know is the kind of story that we

1279
00:52:07,430 --> 00:52:06,000
can get to our editors there we're

1280
00:52:09,349 --> 00:52:07,440
trying to do that we're always following

1281
00:52:12,490 --> 00:52:09,359
up on things and and trying to get to

1282
00:52:15,109 --> 00:52:12,500
the next story so

1283
00:52:17,930 --> 00:52:15,119
in your last article

1284
00:52:20,690 --> 00:52:17,940
and I talked to Ralph about this uh

1285
00:52:22,849 --> 00:52:20,700
maybe you listened to it but in that

1286
00:52:26,030 --> 00:52:22,859
article about Crash retrievals which was

1287
00:52:32,109 --> 00:52:26,040
great right but the the Hidden Gem in

1288
00:52:39,309 --> 00:52:35,210
I'm just reading along and then and then

1289
00:52:43,190 --> 00:52:39,319
I get to it right the the Dr Eric Davis

1290
00:52:48,349 --> 00:52:43,200
uh quote attributed to him

1291
00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:48,359
um that he uh briefed uh in a classified

1292
00:52:56,030 --> 00:52:52,800
setting uh to the Senate that dudes

1293
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:56,040
we've got flying saucers right and so we

1294
00:52:59,450 --> 00:52:57,599
didn't quite like that but actually the

1295
00:53:02,750 --> 00:52:59,460
staffers it wasn't to the actual centers

1296
00:53:06,490 --> 00:53:02,760
to staffers right right and I I read

1297
00:53:13,609 --> 00:53:11,450
and holy crap right whoa

1298
00:53:15,650 --> 00:53:13,619
I agree with you that was a that was an

1299
00:53:18,170 --> 00:53:15,660
amazing little piece of dynamite buried

1300
00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:18,180
in that story and if you know as far as

1301
00:53:22,130 --> 00:53:20,160
Ralph and I were concerned that was the

1302
00:53:25,130 --> 00:53:22,140
that was the headline of the Articles

1303
00:53:28,370 --> 00:53:25,140
the headline why why down why why why

1304
00:53:32,390 --> 00:53:28,380
down and why not lead off with that that

1305
00:53:34,549 --> 00:53:32,400
was not our uh up to us that was there's

1306
00:53:36,349 --> 00:53:34,559
a lot of editorial control when you

1307
00:53:37,490 --> 00:53:36,359
write a story about UFOs for the New

1308
00:53:40,609 --> 00:53:37,500
York Times

1309
00:53:42,890 --> 00:53:40,619
so uh you know

1310
00:53:45,530 --> 00:53:42,900
well I I can't say too much about it but

1311
00:53:48,829 --> 00:53:45,540
we don't always get to choose the order

1312
00:53:50,569 --> 00:53:48,839
in which things appear in a story what's

1313
00:53:53,210 --> 00:53:50,579
important what isn't important how much

1314
00:53:55,069 --> 00:53:53,220
information we can include about this as

1315
00:53:58,430 --> 00:53:55,079
opposed to that

1316
00:54:00,349 --> 00:53:58,440
uh you know there's there's a lot of

1317
00:54:02,329 --> 00:54:00,359
other people involved in writing in in

1318
00:54:04,430 --> 00:54:02,339
that have the ultimate say and we have

1319
00:54:07,370 --> 00:54:04,440
to you have to you bargain I mean you

1320
00:54:10,490 --> 00:54:07,380
request certain things and you you um

1321
00:54:12,410 --> 00:54:10,500
you know try to you pick your battles

1322
00:54:14,809 --> 00:54:12,420
and you really insist on some things and

1323
00:54:16,670 --> 00:54:14,819
you let go of other things but um yeah

1324
00:54:19,730 --> 00:54:16,680
that was that was the way the article

1325
00:54:21,470 --> 00:54:19,740
was structured well and here's here's

1326
00:54:24,049 --> 00:54:21,480
what people do

1327
00:54:26,510 --> 00:54:24,059
this is the mindset so you read the

1328
00:54:28,970 --> 00:54:26,520
article and you get to that gem that

1329
00:54:33,049 --> 00:54:28,980
piece of dynamite as as you describe it

1330
00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:33,059
you get to that and then uh it's it's

1331
00:54:39,230 --> 00:54:35,520
journalism 101 you're taught this in

1332
00:54:41,870 --> 00:54:39,240
school first week in in class right it

1333
00:54:43,849 --> 00:54:41,880
you vet your you vet your sources three

1334
00:54:46,790 --> 00:54:43,859
times right you bet your sources three

1335
00:54:49,309 --> 00:54:46,800
times adventures and so if the New York

1336
00:54:53,410 --> 00:54:49,319
Times has included this in this article

1337
00:54:57,770 --> 00:54:53,420
this bombshell uh reference in there

1338
00:55:01,849 --> 00:54:57,780
then for it to make it to print they

1339
00:55:04,309 --> 00:55:01,859
deemed it solid and okay am I correct in

1340
00:55:05,990 --> 00:55:04,319
saying it that way absolutely absolutely

1341
00:55:08,210 --> 00:55:06,000
they're very careful about what they

1342
00:55:11,450 --> 00:55:08,220
print and Eric Davis is a highly

1343
00:55:13,609 --> 00:55:11,460
reputable highly credible person

1344
00:55:15,890 --> 00:55:13,619
and so they were willing to accept him

1345
00:55:19,130 --> 00:55:15,900
and that at that level at face value and

1346
00:55:20,990 --> 00:55:19,140
put his quote in there and Lou Elizondo

1347
00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:21,000
also had been in previous stories we'd

1348
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:23,520
written so he contributed to that

1349
00:55:29,210 --> 00:55:26,640
dialogue too about the materials

1350
00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:29,220
um so yeah I mean

1351
00:55:34,430 --> 00:55:32,160
we were amazed that they would do it we

1352
00:55:36,349 --> 00:55:34,440
and you know it's always I remember

1353
00:55:38,270 --> 00:55:36,359
there's a frustration that there wasn't

1354
00:55:41,089 --> 00:55:38,280
more about

1355
00:55:43,549 --> 00:55:41,099
that topic in the story because Ralph

1356
00:55:46,609 --> 00:55:43,559
and I certainly had more information

1357
00:55:48,530 --> 00:55:46,619
but uh it's it's not up to us and I

1358
00:55:49,970 --> 00:55:48,540
think people have to realize if they're

1359
00:55:52,130 --> 00:55:49,980
disappointed

1360
00:55:53,870 --> 00:55:52,140
they have to realize the battle that we

1361
00:55:55,130 --> 00:55:53,880
had to fight just to get in there what

1362
00:55:56,630 --> 00:55:55,140
we got

1363
00:55:58,490 --> 00:55:56,640
um and that was the situation this was

1364
00:55:59,390 --> 00:55:58,500
the most difficult story of all the ones

1365
00:56:01,370 --> 00:55:59,400
we did

1366
00:56:03,710 --> 00:56:01,380
uh because of it you know because of the

1367
00:56:07,190 --> 00:56:03,720
nature of what we're talking about crash

1368
00:56:08,930 --> 00:56:07,200
retrievals right so we did the absolute

1369
00:56:11,270 --> 00:56:08,940
best we could but and we were happy with

1370
00:56:12,710 --> 00:56:11,280
what we got even though of course we'd

1371
00:56:15,890 --> 00:56:12,720
always wish we could have done more with

1372
00:56:18,109 --> 00:56:15,900
it you're giving other journalists out

1373
00:56:19,670 --> 00:56:18,119
there investigative reporters you're

1374
00:56:22,069 --> 00:56:19,680
giving them

1375
00:56:23,049 --> 00:56:22,079
the golden egg right you're giving him

1376
00:56:27,549 --> 00:56:23,059
that

1377
00:56:32,089 --> 00:56:27,559
why from another organization or another

1378
00:56:34,730 --> 00:56:32,099
uh writer uh follow-up and and jumping

1379
00:56:36,650 --> 00:56:34,740
on that comment did you get phone calls

1380
00:56:38,870 --> 00:56:36,660
about it

1381
00:56:41,569 --> 00:56:38,880
that is such a good question Jimmy

1382
00:56:44,270 --> 00:56:41,579
because Ralph and I we're Freelancers

1383
00:56:45,950 --> 00:56:44,280
right but somebody on the staff of like

1384
00:56:48,650 --> 00:56:45,960
the Washington Post

1385
00:56:50,809 --> 00:56:48,660
could go places that we can't go as

1386
00:56:52,609 --> 00:56:50,819
Freelancers and it's like why don't they

1387
00:56:56,210 --> 00:56:52,619
why I mean I remember feeling that way

1388
00:56:58,010 --> 00:56:56,220
when I wrote my story in 2000 right how

1389
00:57:00,770 --> 00:56:58,020
many years ago more than 20 years ago

1390
00:57:02,750 --> 00:57:00,780
about this cometa report I was just

1391
00:57:04,670 --> 00:57:02,760
waiting for everybody to jump on it and

1392
00:57:07,130 --> 00:57:04,680
for like you know Seymour Hirsch or

1393
00:57:09,290 --> 00:57:07,140
someone like that to grab it who

1394
00:57:12,230 --> 00:57:09,300
actually works for a publication and can

1395
00:57:13,970 --> 00:57:12,240
open doors that I could never open as an

1396
00:57:16,069 --> 00:57:13,980
independent or freelance journalist you

1397
00:57:18,290 --> 00:57:16,079
know and nothing happened

1398
00:57:19,730 --> 00:57:18,300
and it's the same thing with that I

1399
00:57:22,250 --> 00:57:19,740
think it's just such a great Point like

1400
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:22,260
why don't these journalists who have

1401
00:57:28,130 --> 00:57:25,200
this inside track that I don't have

1402
00:57:30,170 --> 00:57:28,140
jump all over this and they don't why

1403
00:57:34,309 --> 00:57:30,180
hasn't anybody reported about this new

1404
00:57:36,109 --> 00:57:34,319
ndaa that's asking for reports on Crash

1405
00:57:37,370 --> 00:57:36,119
retrievals and mentions reverse

1406
00:57:40,370 --> 00:57:37,380
engineering

1407
00:57:42,290 --> 00:57:40,380
I mean nobody's covering that and you

1408
00:57:44,990 --> 00:57:42,300
know I don't have the ability to do it

1409
00:57:46,970 --> 00:57:45,000
for the New York Times or I would

1410
00:57:48,829 --> 00:57:46,980
so it's really an interesting question

1411
00:57:51,349 --> 00:57:48,839
about why and you know the media goes

1412
00:57:53,990 --> 00:57:51,359
through waves too remember in around in

1413
00:57:56,030 --> 00:57:54,000
Spring of 2021 right before that report

1414
00:57:58,309 --> 00:57:56,040
came out there was like a frenzy in the

1415
00:58:00,470 --> 00:57:58,319
media right that's when 60 Minutes did

1416
00:58:02,930 --> 00:58:00,480
their show that's when the New Yorker

1417
00:58:05,150 --> 00:58:02,940
piece came out it was you know everybody

1418
00:58:07,010 --> 00:58:05,160
in the media was on this topic and then

1419
00:58:09,230 --> 00:58:07,020
the report came out

1420
00:58:11,089 --> 00:58:09,240
and there was barely any coverage of the

1421
00:58:13,549 --> 00:58:11,099
report all the coverage was in

1422
00:58:14,930 --> 00:58:13,559
anticipation of it and then it just

1423
00:58:16,970 --> 00:58:14,940
stopped

1424
00:58:18,829 --> 00:58:16,980
so I don't know it goes through these

1425
00:58:20,750 --> 00:58:18,839
frenzied moments but there's nobody

1426
00:58:22,609 --> 00:58:20,760
that's really on it really digging

1427
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:22,619
except you know there's people like Ross

1428
00:58:28,630 --> 00:58:24,480
coldheart is amazing

1429
00:58:31,130 --> 00:58:28,640
but from these mainstream established

1430
00:58:34,250 --> 00:58:31,140
media Outlets like the Washington Post

1431
00:58:36,170 --> 00:58:34,260
say or places like that or some of the

1432
00:58:38,270 --> 00:58:36,180
networks like NBC I mean you don't have

1433
00:58:41,270 --> 00:58:38,280
somebody that just staying on this and

1434
00:58:44,030 --> 00:58:41,280
really trying to pick up on it and I

1435
00:58:46,849 --> 00:58:44,040
don't I don't know why really if it were

1436
00:58:49,010 --> 00:58:46,859
me I'd want to do it it's a gift you

1437
00:58:50,329 --> 00:58:49,020
gave you gave everybody the tools you

1438
00:58:54,170 --> 00:58:50,339
gave him the gift

1439
00:58:56,030 --> 00:58:54,180
yeah I did um uh I had a sighting this

1440
00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:56,040
is many many years ago I'm not going to

1441
00:59:00,410 --> 00:58:57,839
waste time on it but I had this

1442
00:59:03,650 --> 00:59:00,420
incredible sighting and I go um I'm

1443
00:59:06,470 --> 00:59:03,660
hosting Coast to Coast right and and I

1444
00:59:08,930 --> 00:59:06,480
go public with it and I tell the whole

1445
00:59:12,530 --> 00:59:08,940
thing think about the size of that

1446
00:59:15,230 --> 00:59:12,540
audience Leslie right yeah and and I

1447
00:59:19,970 --> 00:59:15,240
expected I expected I really did I

1448
00:59:22,069 --> 00:59:19,980
thought somebody CNN Fox uh ABC News BBC

1449
00:59:23,690 --> 00:59:22,079
somebody would reach out going what did

1450
00:59:27,049 --> 00:59:23,700
you say what happened

1451
00:59:30,109 --> 00:59:27,059
crickets I just I I just don't get it

1452
00:59:31,970 --> 00:59:30,119
you give somebody a gift like that and

1453
00:59:35,930 --> 00:59:31,980
um I you know I've just given up and and

1454
00:59:37,970 --> 00:59:35,940
like your your little drop in that

1455
00:59:40,730 --> 00:59:37,980
article I just thought to myself here we

1456
00:59:44,569 --> 00:59:40,740
go this is going to be great all right

1457
00:59:48,109 --> 00:59:44,579
let's circle the wagons nothing yeah

1458
00:59:49,970 --> 00:59:48,119
just that's right absolutely right yeah

1459
00:59:52,190 --> 00:59:49,980
but the Congress did write their their

1460
00:59:54,770 --> 00:59:52,200
legislation so maybe that had maybe it

1461
00:59:57,049 --> 00:59:54,780
somehow was you know contributed towards

1462
00:59:59,210 --> 00:59:57,059
that I have no idea but at least now

1463
01:00:01,670 --> 00:59:59,220
it's it's in the discussion it's part of

1464
01:00:04,430 --> 01:00:01,680
the narrative so let's take our break

1465
01:00:06,530 --> 01:00:04,440
right here we'll be right back more with

1466
01:00:08,690 --> 01:00:06,540
Leslie after this short break I'm Jimmy

1467
01:00:10,490 --> 01:00:08,700
church this is Fade to Black

1468
01:00:12,770 --> 01:00:10,500
this is Jimmy Church of Fade to Black

1469
01:00:14,930 --> 01:00:12,780
please visit all of our sponsors we're

1470
01:00:16,789 --> 01:00:14,940
taking a quick break here all of the

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01:01:05,390 --> 01:01:02,819
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1489
01:01:08,329 --> 01:01:05,400
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1490
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1491
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1500
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01:01:39,950 --> 01:01:37,799
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1507
01:01:55,730 --> 01:01:52,920
going to be a Lifetime Achievement Award

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presented to Linda Moulton Howe right

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now you can submit your podcast to your

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can do all of that on the links below

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for info and tickets go to

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hosting and presenting on the hidden

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1540
01:03:24,710 --> 01:03:22,970
all right Welcome Back Fade to Black I'm

1541
01:03:28,210 --> 01:03:24,720
your host Jimmy church tonight Our Guest

1542
01:03:31,549 --> 01:03:28,220
Leslie Kane and

1543
01:03:33,890 --> 01:03:31,559
my goal has been completed

1544
01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:33,900
The Life and Times of Leslie and and

1545
01:03:38,630 --> 01:03:37,440
what makes her tick and the the deal is

1546
01:03:40,789 --> 01:03:38,640
this

1547
01:03:42,890 --> 01:03:40,799
um we started off the show uh tonight

1548
01:03:43,970 --> 01:03:42,900
Leslie with you know what have you been

1549
01:03:48,530 --> 01:03:43,980
up to

1550
01:03:50,390 --> 01:03:48,540
um can you confirm or deny uh you know

1551
01:03:53,390 --> 01:03:50,400
the chatter going around about a new

1552
01:03:54,950 --> 01:03:53,400
series uh coming out that you're you've

1553
01:03:58,970 --> 01:03:54,960
contributed to

1554
01:04:00,410 --> 01:03:58,980
yeah it's it's not uh I can confirm in

1555
01:04:01,490 --> 01:04:00,420
fact I've already posted it on my

1556
01:04:03,890 --> 01:04:01,500
Facebook page

1557
01:04:07,190 --> 01:04:03,900
um but so this is the series that was

1558
01:04:09,410 --> 01:04:07,200
supposed to be was actually made for CNN

1559
01:04:12,109 --> 01:04:09,420
and I was a producer on that along with

1560
01:04:13,549 --> 01:04:12,119
the my my team at breakthrough films

1561
01:04:15,829 --> 01:04:13,559
which is a production company that I've

1562
01:04:18,049 --> 01:04:15,839
worked with on many projects and

1563
01:04:21,170 --> 01:04:18,059
anyway so it's not going to be on CNN

1564
01:04:23,150 --> 01:04:21,180
but it's a five it's a five part series

1565
01:04:25,910 --> 01:04:23,160
um and it's going to be on National

1566
01:04:28,250 --> 01:04:25,920
Geographic not Geo on I think it's

1567
01:04:30,829 --> 01:04:28,260
February 13th is the initial

1568
01:04:33,770 --> 01:04:30,839
two episodes and then the day after it

1569
01:04:35,329 --> 01:04:33,780
goes on Hulu so I think most people will

1570
01:04:37,190 --> 01:04:35,339
probably want to watch it on Hulu I

1571
01:04:38,750 --> 01:04:37,200
don't know I I don't watch cable

1572
01:04:40,250 --> 01:04:38,760
television and turn it on at nine

1573
01:04:42,829 --> 01:04:40,260
o'clock at night to watch something you

1574
01:04:45,470 --> 01:04:42,839
know but it's that's so it's it's two

1575
01:04:47,210 --> 01:04:45,480
episodes on on Monday the 13th and then

1576
01:04:48,829 --> 01:04:47,220
two episodes the following Monday and

1577
01:04:51,049 --> 01:04:48,839
then the final episode the following

1578
01:04:53,329 --> 01:04:51,059
Monday and then so that means by the end

1579
01:04:55,730 --> 01:04:53,339
of that two-week period the whole thing

1580
01:04:59,030 --> 01:04:55,740
will be on Hulu for streaming

1581
01:05:02,329 --> 01:04:59,040
so and and how is

1582
01:05:06,109 --> 01:05:02,339
um uh you know I've got my own series

1583
01:05:08,690 --> 01:05:06,119
um my stuff is on Gaia so I'm it's it's

1584
01:05:11,329 --> 01:05:08,700
a little bit more what's the word I want

1585
01:05:13,190 --> 01:05:11,339
to use I I've got control right and and

1586
01:05:17,030 --> 01:05:13,200
and things it's it's a different way to

1587
01:05:19,250 --> 01:05:17,040
approach things how is uh uh network

1588
01:05:21,650 --> 01:05:19,260
television today starting to approach

1589
01:05:22,849 --> 01:05:21,660
this programming is has it changed for

1590
01:05:25,910 --> 01:05:22,859
you do you think that there's a

1591
01:05:29,510 --> 01:05:25,920
different way of looking at things

1592
01:05:31,130 --> 01:05:29,520
um uh I'm not sure exactly what if I

1593
01:05:33,490 --> 01:05:31,140
understand your question Jimmy

1594
01:05:38,630 --> 01:05:35,930
less of a taboo is that what you mean

1595
01:05:41,150 --> 01:05:38,640
yeah yeah exactly and you know the The

1596
01:05:43,309 --> 01:05:41,160
X-Files music and and that attitude to

1597
01:05:45,650 --> 01:05:43,319
the boardroom yeah no I think that's

1598
01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:45,660
definitely changed and this is this

1599
01:05:49,370 --> 01:05:47,760
series certainly is totally serious

1600
01:05:50,990 --> 01:05:49,380
there's none of that silly stuff at all

1601
01:05:52,609 --> 01:05:51,000
I would never participate in something

1602
01:05:55,490 --> 01:05:52,619
that was like that

1603
01:05:58,130 --> 01:05:55,500
so this is sort of a CNN style kind of

1604
01:06:00,109 --> 01:05:58,140
news you know it's it's just it's really

1605
01:06:02,150 --> 01:06:00,119
exciting and it's

1606
01:06:04,010 --> 01:06:02,160
um you know they I think it's very well

1607
01:06:06,530 --> 01:06:04,020
done and it's designed for people who

1608
01:06:08,569 --> 01:06:06,540
don't know a lot about this so it was

1609
01:06:10,670 --> 01:06:08,579
designed to reach you know the millions

1610
01:06:12,349 --> 01:06:10,680
of in the CNN audience who don't know

1611
01:06:14,089 --> 01:06:12,359
anything about this it's going to be

1612
01:06:15,829 --> 01:06:14,099
part of their documentary

1613
01:06:17,150 --> 01:06:15,839
programming that they'd have they have

1614
01:06:19,670 --> 01:06:17,160
something every Sunday night but anyway

1615
01:06:20,750 --> 01:06:19,680
it didn't work out because CNN they kind

1616
01:06:22,609 --> 01:06:20,760
of uh

1617
01:06:24,109 --> 01:06:22,619
shuttered I mean they just kind of

1618
01:06:25,730 --> 01:06:24,119
collapsed when there was this merger

1619
01:06:27,710 --> 01:06:25,740
over the summer and this whole

1620
01:06:29,089 --> 01:06:27,720
documentary department and within CNN

1621
01:06:31,309 --> 01:06:29,099
just shut down

1622
01:06:34,130 --> 01:06:31,319
and we almost lost the Series altogether

1623
01:06:35,750 --> 01:06:34,140
unfortunately it went over to Vice

1624
01:06:39,230 --> 01:06:35,760
actually picked it up and it went over

1625
01:06:41,029 --> 01:06:39,240
to this Con this it's a Disney plus Vice

1626
01:06:43,910 --> 01:06:41,039
and that Geo they're all part of one

1627
01:06:45,470 --> 01:06:43,920
right yeah he's also going to have a run

1628
01:06:47,750 --> 01:06:45,480
on Vice and it's going to end up on

1629
01:06:48,829 --> 01:06:47,760
Disney plus eventually

1630
01:06:50,510 --> 01:06:48,839
um so it's going to get a lot of

1631
01:06:52,730 --> 01:06:50,520
exposure this year but yeah it's a very

1632
01:06:54,890 --> 01:06:52,740
serious and it's got great people in it

1633
01:06:57,289 --> 01:06:54,900
and revisit some old cases and look at

1634
01:06:59,450 --> 01:06:57,299
them through new eyes and you know talk

1635
01:07:01,849 --> 01:06:59,460
about the behind the scenes at the 2017

1636
01:07:03,589 --> 01:07:01,859
New York Times story and then there's

1637
01:07:04,670 --> 01:07:03,599
stuff about Stephenville and there's

1638
01:07:06,589 --> 01:07:04,680
stuff about

1639
01:07:08,210 --> 01:07:06,599
um you know we have James in there we go

1640
01:07:09,890 --> 01:07:08,220
back to the press conference James and I

1641
01:07:12,710 --> 01:07:09,900
did in 2007 there's a lot of looking

1642
01:07:15,170 --> 01:07:12,720
back but there's also a lot of post 2017

1643
01:07:17,210 --> 01:07:15,180
coverage too

1644
01:07:18,950 --> 01:07:17,220
um and we talk about mufon and some of

1645
01:07:21,650 --> 01:07:18,960
the citizen groups that were really

1646
01:07:23,690 --> 01:07:21,660
prevalent after Blue Book shut down and

1647
01:07:25,849 --> 01:07:23,700
you know got great interviews with a lot

1648
01:07:28,730 --> 01:07:25,859
of incredible people so I think I think

1649
01:07:31,250 --> 01:07:28,740
everyone's going to enjoy it so well you

1650
01:07:34,490 --> 01:07:31,260
know I subscribe I don't have cable TV

1651
01:07:36,650 --> 01:07:34,500
either uh right right you're on Hulu you

1652
01:07:40,190 --> 01:07:36,660
can watch it there I have Hulu I have

1653
01:07:42,470 --> 01:07:40,200
Nat Geo you know it's so funny I I cut

1654
01:07:45,049 --> 01:07:42,480
the tie like everybody does right so you

1655
01:07:46,789 --> 01:07:45,059
cut the ties right no more cable and

1656
01:07:48,589 --> 01:07:46,799
then you go and subscribe and you're

1657
01:07:51,230 --> 01:07:48,599
spending three times the money that you

1658
01:07:52,910 --> 01:07:51,240
were doing yeah I know so all these

1659
01:07:54,410 --> 01:07:52,920
other streaming stations but I want

1660
01:07:56,450 --> 01:07:54,420
people to know I actually went and

1661
01:07:58,250 --> 01:07:56,460
looked that you can get a 30-day free

1662
01:08:00,289 --> 01:07:58,260
trial on Hulu

1663
01:08:01,970 --> 01:08:00,299
So for anybody who wants to watch it

1664
01:08:04,250 --> 01:08:01,980
just wait until all three it's all up

1665
01:08:06,410 --> 01:08:04,260
there and then do your third you have 30

1666
01:08:08,750 --> 01:08:06,420
days so you can you know you can watch

1667
01:08:10,430 --> 01:08:08,760
it for free and then just can your

1668
01:08:13,430 --> 01:08:10,440
subscription and you won't pay anything

1669
01:08:15,230 --> 01:08:13,440
and that's how they get you right I know

1670
01:08:17,990 --> 01:08:15,240
you forget to do it but if you just make

1671
01:08:21,650 --> 01:08:18,000
a note you can do it

1672
01:08:25,130 --> 01:08:21,660
um now uh I want to get your uh insights

1673
01:08:27,650 --> 01:08:25,140
uh everybody it's Nat Geo and Hulu and

1674
01:08:30,349 --> 01:08:27,660
it's February 13th

1675
01:08:32,450 --> 01:08:30,359
um which is when it kicks off that's a

1676
01:08:35,870 --> 01:08:32,460
Monday right yeah it's a Monday yeah

1677
01:08:42,769 --> 01:08:35,880
that's it that's the first two episodes

1678
01:08:44,809 --> 01:08:42,779
um I I want your opinion on uh the ndaa

1679
01:08:48,970 --> 01:08:44,819
we're going to get to the report in a

1680
01:08:53,809 --> 01:08:48,980
second but when you have 40 pages

1681
01:08:57,590 --> 01:08:53,819
uh of of Law and legislation right that

1682
01:09:00,229 --> 01:08:57,600
are inserted in into this for what may

1683
01:09:04,010 --> 01:09:00,239
be in this to this extent for the first

1684
01:09:04,729 --> 01:09:04,020
time uh dealing with uap's UFOs

1685
01:09:09,769 --> 01:09:04,739
um

1686
01:09:13,189 --> 01:09:09,779
how good is this and do you think that

1687
01:09:15,289 --> 01:09:13,199
Washington is taking it serious and if

1688
01:09:17,450 --> 01:09:15,299
it is you know the words you know this

1689
01:09:19,010 --> 01:09:17,460
is written into law because there's a

1690
01:09:20,990 --> 01:09:19,020
couple of components to this that

1691
01:09:24,410 --> 01:09:21,000
nobody's talking about that nobody wants

1692
01:09:26,630 --> 01:09:24,420
to mention one of them historically that

1693
01:09:28,070 --> 01:09:26,640
we've been talking about all night uh

1694
01:09:31,130 --> 01:09:28,080
the history of things

1695
01:09:35,090 --> 01:09:31,140
is that the odni and the D and the

1696
01:09:39,650 --> 01:09:35,100
Department of Defense are mandated to go

1697
01:09:44,689 --> 01:09:39,660
back to January 1st 1945 and investigate

1698
01:09:49,309 --> 01:09:44,699
and revisit all of the military reports

1699
01:09:52,610 --> 01:09:49,319
that's like huge and the rest of the NDA

1700
01:09:55,430 --> 01:09:52,620
okay that's great but that right there

1701
01:09:57,350 --> 01:09:55,440
is a really really big deal it's

1702
01:09:59,750 --> 01:09:57,360
something that the UFO Community has

1703
01:10:02,030 --> 01:09:59,760
been uh screaming about from the

1704
01:10:04,669 --> 01:10:02,040
beginning that we have other stuff to

1705
01:10:06,110 --> 01:10:04,679
talk about here it's not just these two

1706
01:10:08,810 --> 01:10:06,120
or three cases

1707
01:10:10,910 --> 01:10:08,820
yeah it is huge I can hardly imagine how

1708
01:10:12,290 --> 01:10:10,920
they're gonna do it in any timely

1709
01:10:15,050 --> 01:10:12,300
fashion really

1710
01:10:16,970 --> 01:10:15,060
but yeah it's extraordinary and I think

1711
01:10:18,169 --> 01:10:16,980
I think it's also extraordinary that

1712
01:10:20,149 --> 01:10:18,179
they're offering these whistleblower

1713
01:10:23,169 --> 01:10:20,159
protections for people to be able to

1714
01:10:26,570 --> 01:10:23,179
come forward and talk to Congress about

1715
01:10:28,010 --> 01:10:26,580
sensitive matters relating to UAP I mean

1716
01:10:29,630 --> 01:10:28,020
the whole thing is incredible if you

1717
01:10:31,910 --> 01:10:29,640
look back over what we've been living

1718
01:10:33,530 --> 01:10:31,920
with since the close of blue book or

1719
01:10:36,110 --> 01:10:33,540
even before that

1720
01:10:38,149 --> 01:10:36,120
I mean you know I think that it's easy

1721
01:10:39,709 --> 01:10:38,159
to find fault with these things if the

1722
01:10:42,169 --> 01:10:39,719
people like to focus on oh they didn't

1723
01:10:43,970 --> 01:10:42,179
do that or they didn't do this or but

1724
01:10:46,370 --> 01:10:43,980
just the fact that it's happening at all

1725
01:10:48,890 --> 01:10:46,380
is sort of what amazes me because I I

1726
01:10:52,310 --> 01:10:48,900
you know I started doing all of this in

1727
01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:52,320
1999 so I've seen this incredible

1728
01:10:56,030 --> 01:10:53,760
transition

1729
01:10:57,950 --> 01:10:56,040
and so it's hard for me to you know to

1730
01:11:00,169 --> 01:10:57,960
be too critical of what I see happening

1731
01:11:04,070 --> 01:11:00,179
when I put it in the context of what

1732
01:11:06,830 --> 01:11:04,080
life was like before 2017 and so

1733
01:11:09,110 --> 01:11:06,840
to me with whatever problems there might

1734
01:11:11,149 --> 01:11:09,120
be with the ndaa and you know for

1735
01:11:13,729 --> 01:11:11,159
instance that there's no the GAO should

1736
01:11:15,410 --> 01:11:13,739
have been is no longer given oversight I

1737
01:11:18,590 --> 01:11:15,420
mean there are certain things in there

1738
01:11:19,610 --> 01:11:18,600
there's stuff about saps that you know

1739
01:11:21,169 --> 01:11:19,620
maybe they're not going to release

1740
01:11:23,450 --> 01:11:21,179
certain information we don't know how

1741
01:11:25,189 --> 01:11:23,460
much is going to be made public all of

1742
01:11:27,470 --> 01:11:25,199
that but still

1743
01:11:29,750 --> 01:11:27,480
just the fact that it's on the books at

1744
01:11:32,810 --> 01:11:29,760
all to me is absolutely extraordinary

1745
01:11:34,250 --> 01:11:32,820
and obviously there are some at least

1746
01:11:35,870 --> 01:11:34,260
some members of Congress that really do

1747
01:11:37,910 --> 01:11:35,880
care about it they're the ones that are

1748
01:11:40,970 --> 01:11:37,920
making this happen I don't know

1749
01:11:43,370 --> 01:11:40,980
and and so I just I look at it through a

1750
01:11:47,030 --> 01:11:43,380
pretty positive lens

1751
01:11:50,630 --> 01:11:47,040
um and I I'm just amazed by it you know

1752
01:11:53,390 --> 01:11:50,640
what amazes me when when you see a

1753
01:11:56,530 --> 01:11:53,400
budget right the stack how large it is

1754
01:11:59,209 --> 01:11:56,540
yeah and and who's writing it

1755
01:12:02,689 --> 01:11:59,219
who's reading it for that matter who's

1756
01:12:04,490 --> 01:12:02,699
got the time to sit down and and read

1757
01:12:07,610 --> 01:12:04,500
all of the content and then you get to

1758
01:12:08,750 --> 01:12:07,620
the section on uaps and you read through

1759
01:12:12,110 --> 01:12:08,760
that

1760
01:12:14,510 --> 01:12:12,120
all I can ask myself is who were they

1761
01:12:17,390 --> 01:12:14,520
talking to there's too many specifics in

1762
01:12:20,510 --> 01:12:17,400
here there's input coming in and it's

1763
01:12:23,450 --> 01:12:20,520
not from staffers it's not there's

1764
01:12:26,750 --> 01:12:23,460
there's input coming from somewhere do

1765
01:12:28,610 --> 01:12:26,760
you have any idea who is consultant uh

1766
01:12:32,450 --> 01:12:28,620
who was Consulting on that section for

1767
01:12:34,610 --> 01:12:32,460
uaps I I suspect that Chris melon was

1768
01:12:36,830 --> 01:12:34,620
I suspect that the members of Congress

1769
01:12:40,490 --> 01:12:36,840
talk to a number of people like Chris

1770
01:12:43,130 --> 01:12:40,500
Mellon and got input and you know advice

1771
01:12:45,050 --> 01:12:43,140
and he certainly one of them it's on the

1772
01:12:46,610 --> 01:12:45,060
Forefront of working with members of

1773
01:12:49,130 --> 01:12:46,620
Congress so

1774
01:12:50,750 --> 01:12:49,140
yeah I'm sure I and Beyond I don't

1775
01:12:52,669 --> 01:12:50,760
really know beyond that but I think that

1776
01:12:56,750 --> 01:12:52,679
Chris played a major role in making that

1777
01:13:00,709 --> 01:12:56,760
happen it smells melon-ish it does yeah

1778
01:13:03,169 --> 01:13:00,719
it's got a little melon smell to it

1779
01:13:07,430 --> 01:13:03,179
um uh which I love I love the smell of

1780
01:13:12,790 --> 01:13:10,070
but but the other part of it

1781
01:13:17,810 --> 01:13:12,800
um which I was surprised about

1782
01:13:20,390 --> 01:13:17,820
we uh in the UFO Community have inserted

1783
01:13:23,090 --> 01:13:20,400
whistleblower for Witness

1784
01:13:26,090 --> 01:13:23,100
is there a difference between the two in

1785
01:13:27,770 --> 01:13:26,100
the ndaa it's witness protection you

1786
01:13:29,930 --> 01:13:27,780
know it they use the word witness

1787
01:13:31,910 --> 01:13:29,940
instead of whistleblower yeah

1788
01:13:33,590 --> 01:13:31,920
yeah that should be

1789
01:13:35,330 --> 01:13:33,600
I mean I guess maybe I'm confused about

1790
01:13:38,390 --> 01:13:35,340
that because a whistleblower is really

1791
01:13:41,630 --> 01:13:38,400
somebody who's reporting on some kind of

1792
01:13:43,310 --> 01:13:41,640
misdeed you know or crime yeah a crime

1793
01:13:44,810 --> 01:13:43,320
within the government that that needs to

1794
01:13:46,669 --> 01:13:44,820
yeah exactly

1795
01:13:48,649 --> 01:13:46,679
um and these don't have to be people

1796
01:13:50,930 --> 01:13:48,659
that see any kind of crime they're just

1797
01:13:53,630 --> 01:13:50,940
people who want to report on what they

1798
01:13:55,370 --> 01:13:53,640
know the only crime might be that they

1799
01:13:56,990 --> 01:13:55,380
should have been brought to the

1800
01:13:58,250 --> 01:13:57,000
attention of Congress a lot sooner there

1801
01:13:59,330 --> 01:13:58,260
should have been some kind of oversight

1802
01:14:01,189 --> 01:13:59,340
to them

1803
01:14:02,870 --> 01:14:01,199
so you know maybe some people would

1804
01:14:04,970 --> 01:14:02,880
consider that a crime I don't know but I

1805
01:14:06,950 --> 01:14:04,980
that's not the focus of it so maybe the

1806
01:14:10,250 --> 01:14:06,960
use of whistleblower isn't isn't really

1807
01:14:12,590 --> 01:14:10,260
accurate right right our community has

1808
01:14:14,510 --> 01:14:12,600
has done that without without thinking

1809
01:14:16,250 --> 01:14:14,520
about the differences between the two

1810
01:14:18,530 --> 01:14:16,260
and yeah I think it's important to do

1811
01:14:19,850 --> 01:14:18,540
that I mean I I think I'll think I I

1812
01:14:21,950 --> 01:14:19,860
actually wasn't careful about it

1813
01:14:24,229 --> 01:14:21,960
probably myself so yeah there really is

1814
01:14:26,870 --> 01:14:24,239
a difference and I think it's witnesses

1815
01:14:28,910 --> 01:14:26,880
that they want to hear from now

1816
01:14:30,649 --> 01:14:28,920
um uh to that end

1817
01:14:35,209 --> 01:14:30,659
when we're talking about crash

1818
01:14:38,030 --> 01:14:35,219
retrievals that that would in my mind if

1819
01:14:39,530 --> 01:14:38,040
would fall into some sap program with

1820
01:14:44,149 --> 01:14:39,540
Lockheed out here in the middle of the

1821
01:14:46,010 --> 01:14:44,159
Mojave Desert as opposed to uh pilots

1822
01:14:48,709 --> 01:14:46,020
and things that are going on in the

1823
01:14:51,050 --> 01:14:48,719
skies that are getting reported which

1824
01:14:52,070 --> 01:14:51,060
have been compiled into the most recent

1825
01:14:56,330 --> 01:14:52,080
report

1826
01:15:00,430 --> 01:14:56,340
is there a way uh with the ndaa or the

1827
01:15:04,010 --> 01:15:00,440
senate or congress to get to a witness

1828
01:15:06,890 --> 01:15:04,020
from say a backwards engineering program

1829
01:15:09,350 --> 01:15:06,900
that may be going on somewhere in the

1830
01:15:11,689 --> 01:15:09,360
Nevada desert is there a way to do that

1831
01:15:13,850 --> 01:15:11,699
and do you think that the ndaa that's

1832
01:15:15,830 --> 01:15:13,860
part of its purpose

1833
01:15:17,870 --> 01:15:15,840
yeah I mean I don't know what the

1834
01:15:18,830 --> 01:15:17,880
reporting the mechanisms are that are

1835
01:15:21,590 --> 01:15:18,840
you know I think they're still being

1836
01:15:25,729 --> 01:15:21,600
worked out through which people will

1837
01:15:27,530 --> 01:15:25,739
come to Arrow or to Congress

1838
01:15:29,270 --> 01:15:27,540
um but you know I think what's been

1839
01:15:32,090 --> 01:15:29,280
happening so far is that people have

1840
01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:32,100
come forward and offered their

1841
01:15:36,470 --> 01:15:35,040
contribution to whoever they're speaking

1842
01:15:38,510 --> 01:15:36,480
with

1843
01:15:41,149 --> 01:15:38,520
um so then I think you know if

1844
01:15:43,310 --> 01:15:41,159
information is provided then the members

1845
01:15:46,790 --> 01:15:43,320
of Congress have to verify it they have

1846
01:15:48,709 --> 01:15:46,800
to go out and find what it is that

1847
01:15:50,570 --> 01:15:48,719
they're being told

1848
01:15:52,250 --> 01:15:50,580
um it's a long process

1849
01:15:55,070 --> 01:15:52,260
and I think they're still working out

1850
01:15:57,850 --> 01:15:55,080
the the mechanism by which people will

1851
01:16:00,290 --> 01:15:57,860
go through this process

1852
01:16:01,790 --> 01:16:00,300
but some of them already have begun some

1853
01:16:03,830 --> 01:16:01,800
of them have already been talking to

1854
01:16:05,709 --> 01:16:03,840
officials from Arrow and to

1855
01:16:08,030 --> 01:16:05,719
Congressional staffers

1856
01:16:10,790 --> 01:16:08,040
but it's going to be interesting to see

1857
01:16:12,530 --> 01:16:10,800
to what extent members of Congress will

1858
01:16:14,930 --> 01:16:12,540
really be able to get to the bottom of

1859
01:16:17,209 --> 01:16:14,940
some of these reports I mean even if

1860
01:16:18,830 --> 01:16:17,219
it's a high level person that's

1861
01:16:20,450 --> 01:16:18,840
reporting something within their own

1862
01:16:22,850 --> 01:16:20,460
experience

1863
01:16:24,770 --> 01:16:22,860
it's just that one person's information

1864
01:16:26,390 --> 01:16:24,780
maybe they won't be able to track it

1865
01:16:29,510 --> 01:16:26,400
down maybe they won't be able to confirm

1866
01:16:31,610 --> 01:16:29,520
it if something is off in a corporation

1867
01:16:33,290 --> 01:16:31,620
like Lockheed

1868
01:16:36,050 --> 01:16:33,300
um then there's also kinds of issues

1869
01:16:38,990 --> 01:16:36,060
around what what kind of um control

1870
01:16:42,110 --> 01:16:39,000
these companies have over their own

1871
01:16:43,790 --> 01:16:42,120
possessions there's is you know laws

1872
01:16:46,430 --> 01:16:43,800
about proprietary

1873
01:16:49,130 --> 01:16:46,440
issues around something that is in their

1874
01:16:51,830 --> 01:16:49,140
possession they may not be required to

1875
01:16:53,630 --> 01:16:51,840
reveal it to the a government agency I

1876
01:16:55,250 --> 01:16:53,640
mean there's a lot of complexities that

1877
01:16:56,630 --> 01:16:55,260
have to be worked out and then there's

1878
01:16:58,430 --> 01:16:56,640
also the question of how much of this

1879
01:17:01,030 --> 01:16:58,440
will be made public even if they do find

1880
01:17:06,709 --> 01:17:04,370
I'm down the street from Lockheed I'm

1881
01:17:07,669 --> 01:17:06,719
looking for the flying saucers yeah I

1882
01:17:08,990 --> 01:17:07,679
don't think they're going to be flying

1883
01:17:10,729 --> 01:17:09,000
them they just got them in a vault

1884
01:17:12,550 --> 01:17:10,739
somewhere so they can reverse engineer

1885
01:17:14,510 --> 01:17:12,560
them right

1886
01:17:17,750 --> 01:17:14,520
at some point

1887
01:17:20,149 --> 01:17:17,760
um but uh I've been waiting haven't seen

1888
01:17:23,149 --> 01:17:20,159
it yet but then again I don't know if I

1889
01:17:25,370 --> 01:17:23,159
would say it uh on the air uh either I

1890
01:17:26,229 --> 01:17:25,380
like where I live

1891
01:17:28,669 --> 01:17:26,239
um

1892
01:17:31,130 --> 01:17:28,679
it's going to be a long and complex

1893
01:17:33,290 --> 01:17:31,140
process and we just hope for the best

1894
01:17:35,450 --> 01:17:33,300
but you know if something comes out of a

1895
01:17:37,550 --> 01:17:35,460
special something really sensitive is

1896
01:17:38,750 --> 01:17:37,560
reported to Congress that's has National

1897
01:17:40,490 --> 01:17:38,760
Security

1898
01:17:42,770 --> 01:17:40,500
implications I don't think it's going to

1899
01:17:44,330 --> 01:17:42,780
be made public and it maybe it shouldn't

1900
01:17:46,490 --> 01:17:44,340
be it should probably be some things

1901
01:17:48,310 --> 01:17:46,500
that shouldn't be made public and you

1902
01:17:50,930 --> 01:17:48,320
know that's going to be a tricky thing

1903
01:17:54,470 --> 01:17:50,940
uh for how that how they're going to

1904
01:17:55,729 --> 01:17:54,480
decide that and will stuff leak you know

1905
01:17:57,169 --> 01:17:55,739
all these questions that we don't know

1906
01:18:00,229 --> 01:17:57,179
yet we don't know what's going to happen

1907
01:18:02,209 --> 01:18:00,239
but it's just a great it's just great

1908
01:18:04,490 --> 01:18:02,219
that it's begun that it's happening at

1909
01:18:05,930 --> 01:18:04,500
all it's how I look at it yeah I just

1910
01:18:08,510 --> 01:18:05,940
never know what the next day is going to

1911
01:18:11,149 --> 01:18:08,520
bring right it's really exciting it's an

1912
01:18:13,910 --> 01:18:11,159
exciting time it really really is it

1913
01:18:16,070 --> 01:18:13,920
truly is so with

1914
01:18:18,110 --> 01:18:16,080
um there are three things in play here

1915
01:18:21,950 --> 01:18:18,120
that I want your opinion on so we had

1916
01:18:25,430 --> 01:18:21,960
the UFO hearing uh Bray and Moultrie uh

1917
01:18:27,350 --> 01:18:25,440
the the two first uh what would we call

1918
01:18:30,410 --> 01:18:27,360
them are they Witnesses well they were

1919
01:18:32,630 --> 01:18:30,420
called to testify yeah I mean the

1920
01:18:34,729 --> 01:18:32,640
Congress called them Witnesses but

1921
01:18:38,270 --> 01:18:34,739
you're right right so we had Bray and

1922
01:18:40,850 --> 01:18:38,280
Moultrie and then uh on the front and

1923
01:18:45,709 --> 01:18:40,860
back side of that uh we had the two

1924
01:18:48,050 --> 01:18:45,719
reports uh from OD and I and in the

1925
01:18:50,750 --> 01:18:48,060
first report so if we look at it in a

1926
01:18:52,310 --> 01:18:50,760
linear sense first report comes out like

1927
01:18:54,590 --> 01:18:52,320
you said

1928
01:18:57,290 --> 01:18:54,600
um we've got we've got questions because

1929
01:18:59,090 --> 01:18:57,300
it's not us it's not them so we've got

1930
01:19:00,709 --> 01:18:59,100
the other bin that we're lumping all of

1931
01:19:02,510 --> 01:19:00,719
this stuff into right so we got that out

1932
01:19:05,890 --> 01:19:02,520
of the first report pretty cool

1933
01:19:08,750 --> 01:19:05,900
and then Bray Moultrie uh testified

1934
01:19:11,030 --> 01:19:08,760
ah man it's just Chinese drones right

1935
01:19:13,130 --> 01:19:11,040
this is all military there's no ET

1936
01:19:15,649 --> 01:19:13,140
component here

1937
01:19:17,390 --> 01:19:15,659
um and I think Andre uh Carson had a

1938
01:19:19,729 --> 01:19:17,400
little bit of frustration with that but

1939
01:19:22,910 --> 01:19:19,739
nonetheless that that was in the middle

1940
01:19:27,110 --> 01:19:22,920
then we've got the latest report that is

1941
01:19:30,470 --> 01:19:27,120
in contrast of Bray moultrie's reporting

1942
01:19:33,649 --> 01:19:30,480
but it's also a little bit contrasty to

1943
01:19:35,510 --> 01:19:33,659
the first report to as well

1944
01:19:37,490 --> 01:19:35,520
um when you start to digest all of this

1945
01:19:40,370 --> 01:19:37,500
what goes through your mind do they even

1946
01:19:42,169 --> 01:19:40,380
understand what is happening or are they

1947
01:19:44,810 --> 01:19:42,179
just holding back

1948
01:19:46,790 --> 01:19:44,820
I mean yeah so the the fact that the

1949
01:19:48,410 --> 01:19:46,800
legislation refers to crash retrievals

1950
01:19:50,330 --> 01:19:48,420
and reverse engineering of course is in

1951
01:19:52,790 --> 01:19:50,340
direct contradiction to what Bray and

1952
01:19:56,990 --> 01:19:52,800
Moultrie said whether this none of that

1953
01:19:59,030 --> 01:19:57,000
so I mean I I assume that there they are

1954
01:20:01,729 --> 01:19:59,040
able to say things in such a way that

1955
01:20:04,310 --> 01:20:01,739
they're not lying

1956
01:20:05,870 --> 01:20:04,320
um if they say they don't have proof

1957
01:20:08,030 --> 01:20:05,880
that there's anything extraterrestrial

1958
01:20:10,370 --> 01:20:08,040
where they probably don't have hard

1959
01:20:14,149 --> 01:20:10,380
proof of it

1960
01:20:16,910 --> 01:20:14,159
so you know are you referring to Bray

1961
01:20:19,370 --> 01:20:16,920
Moultrie or the word yeah the brain

1962
01:20:21,530 --> 01:20:19,380
Moultrie I mean and that whole universe

1963
01:20:24,050 --> 01:20:21,540
of people who will will they they're

1964
01:20:26,930 --> 01:20:24,060
just so distant from

1965
01:20:29,090 --> 01:20:26,940
you know acknowledgment of anything

1966
01:20:30,649 --> 01:20:29,100
strange about it right

1967
01:20:32,450 --> 01:20:30,659
if that's what you're getting at we're

1968
01:20:35,450 --> 01:20:32,460
as opposed to the Congress is way more

1969
01:20:37,430 --> 01:20:35,460
open to asking the tough questions and

1970
01:20:39,410 --> 01:20:37,440
they seem to really get it I mean those

1971
01:20:41,270 --> 01:20:39,420
con members of Congress have received

1972
01:20:43,430 --> 01:20:41,280
enough briefings classified briefings to

1973
01:20:45,470 --> 01:20:43,440
understand what we're dealing with here

1974
01:20:46,790 --> 01:20:45,480
and and um but

1975
01:20:48,830 --> 01:20:46,800
they're not going to come out and really

1976
01:20:50,510 --> 01:20:48,840
say it directly but I don't know how

1977
01:20:52,430 --> 01:20:50,520
much people like Bray and Moultrie

1978
01:20:54,950 --> 01:20:52,440
actually knew

1979
01:20:56,930 --> 01:20:54,960
uh they may be purposely kept from

1980
01:20:58,689 --> 01:20:56,940
knowing certain things so that they can

1981
01:21:01,930 --> 01:20:58,699
go out and talk about it like that

1982
01:21:04,910 --> 01:21:01,940
Leslie do you remember I'm sure you do

1983
01:21:07,130 --> 01:21:04,920
when uh I think it was Gallagher I could

1984
01:21:09,290 --> 01:21:07,140
be wrong but uh one of the members of

1985
01:21:11,810 --> 01:21:09,300
the subcommittee said okay so but what

1986
01:21:15,229 --> 01:21:11,820
about Malmstrom yeah I do remember that

1987
01:21:18,310 --> 01:21:15,239
yeah gray goes I don't do you know

1988
01:21:22,250 --> 01:21:18,320
anything about that yeah exactly

1989
01:21:24,770 --> 01:21:22,260
we don't know all right is that a

1990
01:21:25,930 --> 01:21:24,780
situation where they honestly don't know

1991
01:21:27,830 --> 01:21:25,940
when

1992
01:21:29,810 --> 01:21:27,840
I think that it's not like they've been

1993
01:21:32,390 --> 01:21:29,820
sitting around studying history of UAP

1994
01:21:34,430 --> 01:21:32,400
you know they just brought on is there

1995
01:21:35,750 --> 01:21:34,440
again brought onto this job no I mean I

1996
01:21:38,390 --> 01:21:35,760
wasn't surprised that they didn't know

1997
01:21:40,970 --> 01:21:38,400
to tell you the truth you know the the

1998
01:21:43,550 --> 01:21:40,980
members of the UFO Community oh come on

1999
01:21:45,470 --> 01:21:43,560
right yeah but you know this is what

2000
01:21:46,669 --> 01:21:45,480
they're into these guys aren't that's

2001
01:21:48,410 --> 01:21:46,679
not what they're doing with their time

2002
01:21:50,990 --> 01:21:48,420
they're like bureaucrats they've come in

2003
01:21:51,890 --> 01:21:51,000
to try to organize this task force or

2004
01:21:54,169 --> 01:21:51,900
whatever

2005
01:21:56,330 --> 01:21:54,179
you know and they're not focused on the

2006
01:21:58,850 --> 01:21:56,340
studying stuff from the history books so

2007
01:22:01,010 --> 01:21:58,860
yeah it was kind of amusing but it

2008
01:22:04,310 --> 01:22:01,020
wasn't surprising to me it was very

2009
01:22:07,669 --> 01:22:04,320
amusing and if they if they are

2010
01:22:10,430 --> 01:22:07,679
continuing to choose you know and pick

2011
01:22:12,050 --> 01:22:10,440
this low-hanging fruit of of military

2012
01:22:14,510 --> 01:22:12,060
reports

2013
01:22:16,910 --> 01:22:14,520
they've got a couple of things that are

2014
01:22:20,330 --> 01:22:16,920
right in front of them and I would think

2015
01:22:22,490 --> 01:22:20,340
that rendelshim should be something that

2016
01:22:26,149 --> 01:22:22,500
has a pretty severe paper trail to it

2017
01:22:26,990 --> 01:22:26,159
the Witnesses are all still alive and we

2018
01:22:29,090 --> 01:22:27,000
have

2019
01:22:30,890 --> 01:22:29,100
um a collection of data too as well that

2020
01:22:32,410 --> 01:22:30,900
goes along with it shouldn't they be

2021
01:22:35,390 --> 01:22:32,420
looking shouldn't

2022
01:22:38,270 --> 01:22:35,400
well Malmstrom too shouldn't right

2023
01:22:39,649 --> 01:22:38,280
shouldn't be part of of This research

2024
01:22:42,530 --> 01:22:39,659
and if they're going to look back to

2025
01:22:45,290 --> 01:22:42,540
1945 even though that was in the United

2026
01:22:47,750 --> 01:22:45,300
Kingdom but it was the United States Air

2027
01:22:48,830 --> 01:22:47,760
Force should become part of the

2028
01:22:50,689 --> 01:22:48,840
conversation

2029
01:22:53,330 --> 01:22:50,699
I would think so I mean if they're going

2030
01:22:55,310 --> 01:22:53,340
to go back and look at cases in previous

2031
01:22:57,110 --> 01:22:55,320
decades that's certainly one of the ones

2032
01:23:00,470 --> 01:22:57,120
that stands out I would agree with you

2033
01:23:03,169 --> 01:23:00,480
in terms of evidence and Witnesses and

2034
01:23:04,490 --> 01:23:03,179
it was spectacular event so I I would

2035
01:23:05,930 --> 01:23:04,500
think so but I don't know how much

2036
01:23:08,390 --> 01:23:05,940
they're going to go they're going to get

2037
01:23:09,290 --> 01:23:08,400
into these sort of Cold Case reviews you

2038
01:23:11,450 --> 01:23:09,300
know of

2039
01:23:13,250 --> 01:23:11,460
things that happened decades ago I mean

2040
01:23:15,830 --> 01:23:13,260
they're right now they're just trying to

2041
01:23:17,990 --> 01:23:15,840
get set up you know what I mean they're

2042
01:23:20,149 --> 01:23:18,000
nowhere near ready to do this kind of

2043
01:23:22,910 --> 01:23:20,159
stuff they're just trying to get some

2044
01:23:26,030 --> 01:23:22,920
staff in there and get organized and get

2045
01:23:29,689 --> 01:23:26,040
the data collected into one location and

2046
01:23:31,189 --> 01:23:29,699
you know it's a slow process so yeah but

2047
01:23:32,930 --> 01:23:31,199
it would make sense to me I agree with

2048
01:23:34,610 --> 01:23:32,940
you that if they're going to review

2049
01:23:35,810 --> 01:23:34,620
cases that's certainly one that you

2050
01:23:38,030 --> 01:23:35,820
would think would be at the top of the

2051
01:23:40,970 --> 01:23:38,040
list if you were going to hand something

2052
01:23:43,550 --> 01:23:40,980
off to uh Kirkpatrick or or Moultrie or

2053
01:23:47,270 --> 01:23:43,560
Bray what would the case be that you

2054
01:23:53,930 --> 01:23:49,430
whoa I don't know you mean a historical

2055
01:23:58,490 --> 01:23:56,810
it's a good question I mean uh

2056
01:24:03,350 --> 01:23:58,500
I mean

2057
01:24:05,090 --> 01:24:03,360
there are so many cases uh just also

2058
01:24:07,430 --> 01:24:05,100
whether a lot of the I don't know if you

2059
01:24:09,770 --> 01:24:07,440
can hear the wind it's howling here but

2060
01:24:11,149 --> 01:24:09,780
um it's crazy yeah I hope it's not too

2061
01:24:13,430 --> 01:24:11,159
noisy um

2062
01:24:15,770 --> 01:24:13,440
yeah I mean I'd have to think about that

2063
01:24:17,630 --> 01:24:15,780
to say like one particular case I mean

2064
01:24:19,250 --> 01:24:17,640
some of them you know the really older

2065
01:24:21,709 --> 01:24:19,260
cases they're not gonna there's not

2066
01:24:22,729 --> 01:24:21,719
gonna be anybody around that can tell

2067
01:24:25,490 --> 01:24:22,739
them what happened they're just gonna

2068
01:24:27,110 --> 01:24:25,500
have to look at documents

2069
01:24:29,810 --> 01:24:27,120
um so

2070
01:24:31,010 --> 01:24:29,820
you know it's a good I don't know I

2071
01:24:32,870 --> 01:24:31,020
can't think of anything off the top of

2072
01:24:34,790 --> 01:24:32,880
my head I mean

2073
01:24:37,010 --> 01:24:34,800
um I mean randallsham certainly is one

2074
01:24:37,910 --> 01:24:37,020
of the stronger ones

2075
01:24:40,490 --> 01:24:37,920
um

2076
01:24:42,649 --> 01:24:40,500
there's a lot of the Iranian case is

2077
01:24:45,470 --> 01:24:42,659
always fascinated me because of the in

2078
01:24:48,290 --> 01:24:45,480
the the long report that the US

2079
01:24:51,169 --> 01:24:48,300
government filed on that case absolute

2080
01:24:53,630 --> 01:24:51,179
details but we've we've lost parvi

2081
01:24:55,070 --> 01:24:53,640
Jafari he died so

2082
01:24:56,750 --> 01:24:55,080
you know I don't know how much they're

2083
01:24:57,950 --> 01:24:56,760
going to be able to go into these older

2084
01:25:01,610 --> 01:24:57,960
cases really

2085
01:25:03,470 --> 01:25:01,620
yeah the uh with the um you've mentioned

2086
01:25:05,630 --> 01:25:03,480
the Iranian case now like five times

2087
01:25:07,610 --> 01:25:05,640
tonight I don't know I just find that

2088
01:25:10,729 --> 01:25:07,620
one fascinating

2089
01:25:14,770 --> 01:25:10,739
an incredible case and so when you just

2090
01:25:19,430 --> 01:25:14,780
when you just have the aspect of

2091
01:25:22,610 --> 01:25:19,440
scrambling uh Iranian Jets right just

2092
01:25:25,189 --> 01:25:22,620
right there but the back side of that

2093
01:25:28,189 --> 01:25:25,199
story is the United States Air Force

2094
01:25:31,250 --> 01:25:28,199
stepping right in and and collecting

2095
01:25:34,130 --> 01:25:31,260
data and interviewing and and then like

2096
01:25:36,770 --> 01:25:34,140
you said writing it up this was a very

2097
01:25:39,649 --> 01:25:36,780
very big deal uh to the United States

2098
01:25:41,570 --> 01:25:39,659
Air Force wasn't it it was and I mean I

2099
01:25:43,490 --> 01:25:41,580
there's a there's this assessment I mean

2100
01:25:46,010 --> 01:25:43,500
I can't remember that I have it in my

2101
01:25:47,630 --> 01:25:46,020
book here but the dni assessment that

2102
01:25:50,870 --> 01:25:47,640
was written on that case

2103
01:25:53,209 --> 01:25:50,880
which said um you know this is a I

2104
01:25:55,130 --> 01:25:53,219
forget exactly this is a perfect example

2105
01:25:57,830 --> 01:25:55,140
of of

2106
01:25:59,570 --> 01:25:57,840
you know a UFO case that of why it's

2107
01:26:01,189 --> 01:25:59,580
important I I mean it would take me a

2108
01:26:03,590 --> 01:26:01,199
minute to find it in my book but it was

2109
01:26:05,770 --> 01:26:03,600
this assessment that was like giving it

2110
01:26:11,090 --> 01:26:05,780
a plus a plus a plus

2111
01:26:12,709 --> 01:26:11,100
from the uh Dia and this was at a at a

2112
01:26:14,990 --> 01:26:12,719
period in history where we have we had

2113
01:26:17,149 --> 01:26:15,000
told the American people that we we had

2114
01:26:18,890 --> 01:26:17,159
no interest in UFOs we weren't studying

2115
01:26:21,110 --> 01:26:18,900
them there was nothing to them they

2116
01:26:23,209 --> 01:26:21,120
weren't worthy of investigation and yet

2117
01:26:25,910 --> 01:26:23,219
you have this report from the DIA on

2118
01:26:28,189 --> 01:26:25,920
this case that shows absolutely the the

2119
01:26:30,110 --> 01:26:28,199
opposite attitude from whoever wrote it

2120
01:26:33,050 --> 01:26:30,120
I think his name was Colonel Moy or

2121
01:26:35,810 --> 01:26:33,060
something m-o-o-y it's just a stunning

2122
01:26:39,050 --> 01:26:35,820
assessment that they wrote after writing

2123
01:26:41,330 --> 01:26:39,060
this four-page single-page report on

2124
01:26:43,850 --> 01:26:41,340
what happened in that case

2125
01:26:45,709 --> 01:26:43,860
so I I just I find it so interesting

2126
01:26:48,050 --> 01:26:45,719
because it's in such contradiction to

2127
01:26:50,030 --> 01:26:48,060
what they were saying publicly yeah the

2128
01:26:52,430 --> 01:26:50,040
one part about that there are so many

2129
01:26:53,649 --> 01:26:52,440
parts about that case but

2130
01:26:57,770 --> 01:26:53,659
um

2131
01:26:59,330 --> 01:26:57,780
the the pilot was ready to pull the

2132
01:27:01,370 --> 01:26:59,340
trigger

2133
01:27:06,470 --> 01:27:01,380
yeah

2134
01:27:10,850 --> 01:27:06,480
he's ready to pull the trigger and when

2135
01:27:14,090 --> 01:27:10,860
he decides to the systems are shut down

2136
01:27:16,850 --> 01:27:14,100
exactly it happened more than once yes

2137
01:27:18,590 --> 01:27:16,860
and you know it was just chilling I mean

2138
01:27:21,189 --> 01:27:18,600
just at the moment he was going to fire

2139
01:27:23,090 --> 01:27:21,199
that missile because there was a large

2140
01:27:24,590 --> 01:27:23,100
diamond-shaped object that was kind of

2141
01:27:27,470 --> 01:27:24,600
sitting up there and then there was the

2142
01:27:29,450 --> 01:27:27,480
projectiles were coming out of it and

2143
01:27:31,189 --> 01:27:29,460
they were like heading for his plane and

2144
01:27:33,050 --> 01:27:31,199
he thought he was going to be attacked

2145
01:27:35,209 --> 01:27:33,060
or something so he was he got his

2146
01:27:36,410 --> 01:27:35,219
missile locked on to this object the

2147
01:27:38,330 --> 01:27:36,420
smaller one

2148
01:27:40,010 --> 01:27:38,340
and just when he was going to press the

2149
01:27:41,510 --> 01:27:40,020
trigger it would everything would shut

2150
01:27:43,310 --> 01:27:41,520
down

2151
01:27:44,810 --> 01:27:43,320
it's just and then the thing would move

2152
01:27:48,590 --> 01:27:44,820
away and it would come back on again

2153
01:27:49,910 --> 01:27:48,600
when it got to be a certain way right it

2154
01:27:52,610 --> 01:27:49,920
was only when it was a certain distance

2155
01:27:54,830 --> 01:27:52,620
of a closeness to him and he also lost

2156
01:27:58,370 --> 01:27:54,840
all his radio communications and

2157
01:28:00,530 --> 01:27:58,380
everything went out in his plane

2158
01:28:02,390 --> 01:28:00,540
um yeah it happened at least certainly

2159
01:28:04,070 --> 01:28:02,400
twice maybe three times before he

2160
01:28:07,010 --> 01:28:04,080
decided I think I better go back down

2161
01:28:08,209 --> 01:28:07,020
yeah and he's hitting that they're like

2162
01:28:11,270 --> 01:28:08,219
what happened what do you mean what

2163
01:28:13,310 --> 01:28:11,280
happened I I I had nothing right right

2164
01:28:15,410 --> 01:28:13,320
yeah I mean it's just it's fascinating

2165
01:28:16,729 --> 01:28:15,420
to read the report for those who haven't

2166
01:28:19,370 --> 01:28:16,739
read it because it's one of the more

2167
01:28:22,250 --> 01:28:19,380
detailed U.S government documents that

2168
01:28:24,050 --> 01:28:22,260
I've ever seen on on one case you know

2169
01:28:26,510 --> 01:28:24,060
just that goes for three or four pages

2170
01:28:28,970 --> 01:28:26,520
the single space you know absolute every

2171
01:28:30,830 --> 01:28:28,980
detail about that case and what happened

2172
01:28:33,470 --> 01:28:30,840
and what the thing looked like and how

2173
01:28:34,850 --> 01:28:33,480
it behaved all of that's in there

2174
01:28:37,430 --> 01:28:34,860
um and then this assessment that gives

2175
01:28:40,310 --> 01:28:37,440
it this High rating as a a case of

2176
01:28:42,649 --> 01:28:40,320
interest is it's just fascinating before

2177
01:28:46,070 --> 01:28:42,659
I I let you go Leslie and I know it's

2178
01:28:48,290 --> 01:28:46,080
New York and it's late and yeah you've

2179
01:28:53,990 --> 01:28:48,300
got stuff to do tomorrow

2180
01:28:58,370 --> 01:28:54,000
um the uh the turnover every year right

2181
01:29:00,830 --> 01:28:58,380
here we are it's January uh of 2023

2182
01:29:05,030 --> 01:29:00,840
every year we go through the same

2183
01:29:06,950 --> 01:29:05,040
cyclical motion which is all right

2184
01:29:09,169 --> 01:29:06,960
this is the year

2185
01:29:12,530 --> 01:29:09,179
it's happening this year right this is

2186
01:29:14,990 --> 01:29:12,540
it this is it is it's 2023 the year how

2187
01:29:17,149 --> 01:29:15,000
do you feel about things do you think uh

2188
01:29:19,910 --> 01:29:17,159
we're about to uh

2189
01:29:21,229 --> 01:29:19,920
uh about to get exposed to things that

2190
01:29:22,430 --> 01:29:21,239
we're gonna have to figure out a way to

2191
01:29:25,070 --> 01:29:22,440
handle it

2192
01:29:27,169 --> 01:29:25,080
well when you say the year the Year for

2193
01:29:29,750 --> 01:29:27,179
what disclosure

2194
01:29:32,270 --> 01:29:29,760
I don't think so I mean I I don't think

2195
01:29:34,570 --> 01:29:32,280
it's that no I wouldn't depending how

2196
01:29:38,149 --> 01:29:34,580
you Define disclosure

2197
01:29:40,970 --> 01:29:38,159
how do you define it well I mean I I

2198
01:29:43,129 --> 01:29:40,980
Define it it's a word that comes from

2199
01:29:45,770 --> 01:29:43,139
the UFO Community which I think they

2200
01:29:48,229 --> 01:29:45,780
Define as an official acknowledgment

2201
01:29:50,270 --> 01:29:48,239
that we're being visited by E.T or

2202
01:29:53,030 --> 01:29:50,280
something along those lines right an

2203
01:29:56,149 --> 01:29:53,040
official acknowledgment that okay folks

2204
01:29:58,129 --> 01:29:56,159
we're not alone we're not alone we

2205
01:30:01,430 --> 01:29:58,139
haven't been alone for as long as

2206
01:30:04,250 --> 01:30:01,440
however long they might decide to say

2207
01:30:05,570 --> 01:30:04,260
um so I don't know I mean I feel that

2208
01:30:07,790 --> 01:30:05,580
it's more going to be a gradual

2209
01:30:09,950 --> 01:30:07,800
unfolding of information I

2210
01:30:11,930 --> 01:30:09,960
there may come a point where that will

2211
01:30:14,930 --> 01:30:11,940
have to be acknowledged I mean I think

2212
01:30:16,610 --> 01:30:14,940
it's we're inching closer to that but I

2213
01:30:18,169 --> 01:30:16,620
don't necessarily think that level of

2214
01:30:19,370 --> 01:30:18,179
acknowledgment will happen this year but

2215
01:30:21,110 --> 01:30:19,380
I think we're going to make a lot of

2216
01:30:24,050 --> 01:30:21,120
progress this year

2217
01:30:25,729 --> 01:30:24,060
but what do I know you're asking me I'm

2218
01:30:29,990 --> 01:30:25,739
not a I don't have a crystal ball I may

2219
01:30:32,810 --> 01:30:30,000
be completely wrong you know well I I

2220
01:30:36,550 --> 01:30:32,820
would have never have thought that

2221
01:30:39,709 --> 01:30:36,560
December of 2017 would would happen and

2222
01:30:43,070 --> 01:30:39,719
what you did and and I mean it was it

2223
01:30:45,410 --> 01:30:43,080
was what Lou did Lou resigned and then

2224
01:30:47,030 --> 01:30:45,420
he decided he wanted to go into the

2225
01:30:50,510 --> 01:30:47,040
public and I was called to this meeting

2226
01:30:52,070 --> 01:30:50,520
for that reason but really Lou Elizondo

2227
01:30:54,410 --> 01:30:52,080
is the one that made it happen

2228
01:30:56,750 --> 01:30:54,420
I just had the Good Fortune of being

2229
01:30:59,090 --> 01:30:56,760
able to bring it to the New York Times

2230
01:31:01,070 --> 01:30:59,100
but really the credit goes to him and he

2231
01:31:03,530 --> 01:31:01,080
changed everything by resigning from

2232
01:31:05,149 --> 01:31:03,540
that program writing that letter to the

2233
01:31:06,950 --> 01:31:05,159
Secretary of Defense

2234
01:31:08,990 --> 01:31:06,960
I couldn't believe my eyes when I first

2235
01:31:10,250 --> 01:31:09,000
read that thing that that his letter of

2236
01:31:12,110 --> 01:31:10,260
resignation when I was sitting there in

2237
01:31:15,110 --> 01:31:12,120
that meeting in Washington

2238
01:31:17,149 --> 01:31:15,120
I could not believe it you know now it

2239
01:31:18,669 --> 01:31:17,159
just doesn't seem like okay that big a

2240
01:31:21,890 --> 01:31:18,679
deal you know

2241
01:31:24,050 --> 01:31:21,900
but it was a shock it was just like I

2242
01:31:24,890 --> 01:31:24,060
could not believe my eyes when I was

2243
01:31:26,450 --> 01:31:24,900
there

2244
01:31:29,750 --> 01:31:26,460
um at that meeting I'll never forget it

2245
01:31:32,450 --> 01:31:29,760
are are you sitting on something now

2246
01:31:35,990 --> 01:31:32,460
um are you working on something uh as

2247
01:31:38,209 --> 01:31:36,000
far as a research go with uaps and and

2248
01:31:40,310 --> 01:31:38,219
is there something uh right around the

2249
01:31:42,169 --> 01:31:40,320
corner

2250
01:31:44,209 --> 01:31:42,179
um I'm always I mean Ralph and I are

2251
01:31:45,649 --> 01:31:44,219
always trying to get something together

2252
01:31:47,090 --> 01:31:45,659
that we can bring to the times and

2253
01:31:48,830 --> 01:31:47,100
hopefully we'll be able to do something

2254
01:31:51,470 --> 01:31:48,840
in the next few months

2255
01:31:53,450 --> 01:31:51,480
and so I'm talking to a lot of people I

2256
01:31:56,750 --> 01:31:53,460
got a lot of sources I'm trying to keep

2257
01:31:59,870 --> 01:31:56,760
tabs on what's happening within this new

2258
01:32:01,910 --> 01:31:59,880
trajectory within arrow in the Congress

2259
01:32:04,129 --> 01:32:01,920
that a lot of you know new Witnesses are

2260
01:32:05,689 --> 01:32:04,139
getting involved with so that's really

2261
01:32:07,910 --> 01:32:05,699
interesting to me to kind of try to

2262
01:32:10,310 --> 01:32:07,920
monitor that as best I can talk to

2263
01:32:12,770 --> 01:32:10,320
people who are involved

2264
01:32:15,229 --> 01:32:12,780
um and you know just following up leads

2265
01:32:17,090 --> 01:32:15,239
it takes a lot of time to do the work

2266
01:32:20,330 --> 01:32:17,100
that you never publish

2267
01:32:23,030 --> 01:32:20,340
you know I was always following up on

2268
01:32:25,910 --> 01:32:23,040
things talking to people uh keeping tabs

2269
01:32:28,129 --> 01:32:25,920
on things and then a lot of it just

2270
01:32:28,790 --> 01:32:28,139
never sees the light of day

2271
01:32:31,910 --> 01:32:28,800
um

2272
01:32:33,649 --> 01:32:31,920
but it takes a lot of time anyway so I

2273
01:32:37,490 --> 01:32:33,659
hope I just hope that we'll be able to

2274
01:32:39,649 --> 01:32:37,500
to get something out there soon but I

2275
01:32:42,770 --> 01:32:39,659
don't know all right one last question

2276
01:32:46,790 --> 01:32:42,780
uh were you surprised about uh

2277
01:32:48,490 --> 01:32:46,800
representative uh Timber Chet uh on a

2278
01:32:53,750 --> 01:32:48,500
few occasions now

2279
01:32:55,850 --> 01:32:53,760
uh being extremely vocal and critical uh

2280
01:32:58,209 --> 01:32:55,860
about the United States government his

2281
01:33:02,510 --> 01:32:58,219
words not mine I know

2282
01:33:03,709 --> 01:33:02,520
yeah covering up uh the UFO issue and

2283
01:33:06,350 --> 01:33:03,719
evidence

2284
01:33:08,090 --> 01:33:06,360
um were you surprised about that I mean

2285
01:33:10,129 --> 01:33:08,100
I I don't know if surprise I remember

2286
01:33:13,370 --> 01:33:10,139
the first time I I was actually there

2287
01:33:15,890 --> 01:33:13,380
for the hearing in May and he he was

2288
01:33:17,450 --> 01:33:15,900
there he was the one only member of

2289
01:33:19,610 --> 01:33:17,460
Congress who came to that hearing who

2290
01:33:21,830 --> 01:33:19,620
was not part of the committee so he was

2291
01:33:23,870 --> 01:33:21,840
sitting in the you know in the opposite

2292
01:33:25,390 --> 01:33:23,880
where the members of Congress were and I

2293
01:33:28,310 --> 01:33:25,400
remember as soon as that thing was over

2294
01:33:30,050 --> 01:33:28,320
he was ranting and raving right there in

2295
01:33:32,149 --> 01:33:30,060
the in the same in the room about how

2296
01:33:33,830 --> 01:33:32,159
how pathetic it was and how it was all a

2297
01:33:35,450 --> 01:33:33,840
cover-up and the media was all over him

2298
01:33:38,270 --> 01:33:35,460
with their mic I mean I took some videos

2299
01:33:40,850 --> 01:33:38,280
with my cell phone of him in that moment

2300
01:33:42,169 --> 01:33:40,860
when and and he was just like saying

2301
01:33:43,910 --> 01:33:42,179
this was like I could have written this

2302
01:33:45,530 --> 01:33:43,920
thing in this it was like an eighth

2303
01:33:48,649 --> 01:33:45,540
grade presentation they couldn't even

2304
01:33:51,890 --> 01:33:48,659
get the slides up oh he was

2305
01:33:53,810 --> 01:33:51,900
this is a scam it hasn't changed he has

2306
01:33:56,030 --> 01:33:53,820
not changed his tune since then I mean

2307
01:33:56,810 --> 01:33:56,040
he's very very vocal about

2308
01:33:58,790 --> 01:33:56,820
um

2309
01:34:00,649 --> 01:33:58,800
it's it's fascinating to me I don't know

2310
01:34:01,970 --> 01:34:00,659
it's all a cover-up and he makes the

2311
01:34:04,729 --> 01:34:01,980
point

2312
01:34:06,770 --> 01:34:04,739
should should the should the agency

2313
01:34:08,390 --> 01:34:06,780
that's at fold here be the one doing the

2314
01:34:10,490 --> 01:34:08,400
investigation

2315
01:34:12,770 --> 01:34:10,500
should the Department of Defense be the

2316
01:34:15,410 --> 01:34:12,780
one in charge of this investigation

2317
01:34:18,770 --> 01:34:15,420
I mean he raises that question and so

2318
01:34:20,750 --> 01:34:18,780
yeah just to stand there in the chambers

2319
01:34:22,729 --> 01:34:20,760
right yeah he did it right there after

2320
01:34:25,310 --> 01:34:22,739
this I mean it was it was pretty intense

2321
01:34:28,370 --> 01:34:25,320
I mean I you know he's a bit you know

2322
01:34:30,229 --> 01:34:28,380
he's a bit of a loose cannon but I put

2323
01:34:33,290 --> 01:34:30,239
it mildly

2324
01:34:35,050 --> 01:34:33,300
um but he's he makes his point and he's

2325
01:34:38,209 --> 01:34:35,060
passionate about it

2326
01:34:41,030 --> 01:34:38,219
when he used the word Sham in the

2327
01:34:44,410 --> 01:34:41,040
chambers right this was a sham he does

2328
01:34:47,750 --> 01:34:44,420
say something I mean it was a bit much

2329
01:34:50,149 --> 01:34:47,760
my government your government is lying

2330
01:34:51,709 --> 01:34:50,159
it reminded me of what's his name in The

2331
01:34:55,189 --> 01:34:51,719
Movie Network

2332
01:34:57,649 --> 01:34:55,199
right just just losing it he's just kind

2333
01:34:59,450 --> 01:34:57,659
of loses it and he has this very he's

2334
01:35:01,550 --> 01:34:59,460
got this whole religious component to

2335
01:35:04,669 --> 01:35:01,560
him as well

2336
01:35:06,410 --> 01:35:04,679
um so he he's just sort of a a guy out

2337
01:35:08,149 --> 01:35:06,420
there doing his thing I don't think he

2338
01:35:09,890 --> 01:35:08,159
really uh Blends in with the rest of the

2339
01:35:11,750 --> 01:35:09,900
members of Congress very well who are in

2340
01:35:13,610 --> 01:35:11,760
charge of this he's not he's not part of

2341
01:35:14,990 --> 01:35:13,620
the committee no the Committees that are

2342
01:35:17,090 --> 01:35:15,000
making this happen

2343
01:35:19,430 --> 01:35:17,100
but he obviously feels very strongly

2344
01:35:22,010 --> 01:35:19,440
about it and he doesn't hold back

2345
01:35:24,890 --> 01:35:22,020
on his opinions you know yeah I don't

2346
01:35:27,129 --> 01:35:24,900
think he'll be a uh invited to too many

2347
01:35:29,629 --> 01:35:27,139
committees

2348
01:35:32,450 --> 01:35:29,639
probably lost a little favor among some

2349
01:35:34,850 --> 01:35:32,460
people I would have to say but in a

2350
01:35:37,970 --> 01:35:34,860
weird way but I'm glad that you bring

2351
01:35:42,649 --> 01:35:37,980
that up because in a weird way

2352
01:35:44,030 --> 01:35:42,659
um he is saying the things that you know

2353
01:35:45,890 --> 01:35:44,040
a member of a committee can't

2354
01:35:50,209 --> 01:35:45,900
necessarily say in public

2355
01:35:53,090 --> 01:35:50,219
and and he is speaking for them he's

2356
01:35:54,890 --> 01:35:53,100
speaking for Rubio right he might be

2357
01:35:56,209 --> 01:35:54,900
speaking for the American people too of

2358
01:35:59,689 --> 01:35:56,219
course a lot of people

2359
01:36:02,090 --> 01:35:59,699
feel the way he feels yes so he may be

2360
01:36:04,430 --> 01:36:02,100
also trying to represent a certain group

2361
01:36:05,990 --> 01:36:04,440
of people then he's just letting it hang

2362
01:36:08,510 --> 01:36:06,000
out you know

2363
01:36:10,070 --> 01:36:08,520
I don't know he's a he's an interesting

2364
01:36:11,570 --> 01:36:10,080
guy I mean I was able to actually meet

2365
01:36:14,930 --> 01:36:11,580
him and talk to him a bit in his office

2366
01:36:16,430 --> 01:36:14,940
the day of the hearing and he's an

2367
01:36:19,490 --> 01:36:16,440
interesting guy

2368
01:36:20,990 --> 01:36:19,500
I don't know I just don't you know I

2369
01:36:25,610 --> 01:36:21,000
don't know if he's crossed a line that

2370
01:36:28,550 --> 01:36:25,620
maybe uh is not serving him anymore but

2371
01:36:31,250 --> 01:36:28,560
he just keeps doing it so

2372
01:36:34,790 --> 01:36:31,260
yeah I have no color to things right

2373
01:36:37,250 --> 01:36:34,800
well I I was uh I was on another show

2374
01:36:41,090 --> 01:36:37,260
last week and we were talking about this

2375
01:36:42,410 --> 01:36:41,100
exact issue uh around uh timberchet and

2376
01:36:44,870 --> 01:36:42,420
I said you know what what's the

2377
01:36:47,689 --> 01:36:44,880
alternative not to have somebody like

2378
01:36:50,330 --> 01:36:47,699
him I I don't like that world yeah

2379
01:36:53,570 --> 01:36:50,340
that's color he adds color and energy to

2380
01:36:57,050 --> 01:36:53,580
it yeah I'm okay with it I I really

2381
01:36:59,030 --> 01:36:57,060
well um Leslie that again thank you so

2382
01:37:02,209 --> 01:36:59,040
much I know that you're very busy and

2383
01:37:04,669 --> 01:37:02,219
and uh but uh tonight was an absolutely

2384
01:37:08,570 --> 01:37:04,679
amazing conversation and I look forward

2385
01:37:10,250 --> 01:37:08,580
to UFOs investigating the unknown and

2386
01:37:13,430 --> 01:37:10,260
that's going to be February 13th

2387
01:37:17,330 --> 01:37:13,440
everybody on Nat Geo next next evening

2388
01:37:19,490 --> 01:37:17,340
it'll be on Hulu and I look forward to

2389
01:37:21,290 --> 01:37:19,500
the next thing that you publish thank

2390
01:37:23,330 --> 01:37:21,300
you so much thanks for having me on

2391
01:37:25,729 --> 01:37:23,340
Jimmy it was really fun you're the best

2392
01:37:27,310 --> 01:37:25,739
Leslie thank you so much don't change

2393
01:37:31,729 --> 01:37:27,320
don't change

2394
01:37:34,629 --> 01:37:31,739
don't ever I'm planning to thank you so

2395
01:37:38,470 --> 01:37:34,639
much have a great night bye

2396
01:37:41,510 --> 01:37:38,480
Leslie Kane thank you so much and uh

2397
01:37:43,430 --> 01:37:41,520
Leslie's got a busy day tomorrow she's

2398
01:37:46,550 --> 01:37:43,440
on the East Coast she's in New York of

2399
01:37:48,709 --> 01:37:46,560
course and uh we took this as far as we

2400
01:37:51,350 --> 01:37:48,719
could tonight and uh just thank you for

2401
01:37:54,530 --> 01:37:51,360
that and and Leslie taking the time uh

2402
01:37:57,970 --> 01:37:54,540
to hang out with all of us here I'm your

2403
01:38:01,310 --> 01:37:57,980
host Jimmy church and what is going on

2404
01:38:05,149 --> 01:38:01,320
uh tomorrow night on Fade to Black oh

2405
01:38:07,790 --> 01:38:05,159
tomorrow night the one and only Debbie

2406
01:38:11,830 --> 01:38:07,800
Cobble is with us tomorrow night Debbie

2407
01:38:15,169 --> 01:38:11,840
Cobble subject of Bud Hopkins book

2408
01:38:16,930 --> 01:38:15,179
Intruders that is tomorrow night here on

2409
01:38:19,490 --> 01:38:16,940
Fade to Black I'm your host Jimmy church

2410
01:38:21,950 --> 01:38:19,500
and uh I've got to get out of here and

2411
01:38:23,629 --> 01:38:21,960
for some reason oh there it is there it

2412
01:38:26,270 --> 01:38:23,639
is

2413
01:38:28,390 --> 01:38:26,280
all systems go

2414
01:38:33,229 --> 01:38:28,400
good night Debbie Cobble

2415
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and then Wednesday nights we've got

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Sarah breskman and cosme with us so

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we've got a great week ahead on Fade to

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Black which is produced by Hilton J Palm

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Renee Dennis and Kevin what Master is

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Drew the geek music Doug Aldrich intro

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space boys spaceboymusic.com fade to

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black is produced by kjcr for the game

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changer Network and this broadcast is

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own and copyrighted 2023 by Fade to

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Black in the game changer Network Inc it

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cannot be rebroadcast downloaded copied

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or used anywhere in the known universe

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without written permission for Fade to

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Black in the game changer Network I'm

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your chibi church tomorrow night Debbie

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Cobble until then I want everybody to be

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safe